Muzzle loader hunter's question
- Thread starter KDX
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I suspect you are talking about the bullet/sabot combination......each muzzleloader has its likes and dislikes so just because one works for me doesn't mean it will for you and you need to experiment but I'm a big fan of the 250-grain SST. I've personally shot animals from 20 to over 200 yards with it and performance is good. The bonded SSTs hold together a bit better but I can't get the accuracy out of them as I can with the regular SSTs. I've shot everything from deer to moose with them and am very pleased and they can handle the velocity of a three pellet load.
I've seen some great performance from the 200 grain SST as well but it just won't shoot out of my Omegas. I've seen a big mule deer dropped with it at a shade over 300 yards and several moose.
Thompson Center also markets these bullets under the name Shockwave.
I've seen some great performance from the 200 grain SST as well but it just won't shoot out of my Omegas. I've seen a big mule deer dropped with it at a shade over 300 yards and several moose.
Thompson Center also markets these bullets under the name Shockwave.
There were some issues recently with the sabots for the 200grain 40 cal bullets used in 50 cal muzzleloaders. I ended up with a bad batch and had an incredibly frustrating day at the range until I figured out the sabots were to blame and not the rifle.
i've found bullets from powerbelt work best for me. they have a plastic ring at the base of the bullet and they load much easier than bullets with sabots. if you're goin to use sabots, hornady .45 cal bullet with sabot, in a .50 cal. inline is ok,but it's not as handy as having a powerbelt one piece bullet.
Check out http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage
There's always ML bullet discussions going on there. What you'll find is that different bullets perform at different speeds. Cheap bullets like XTPs and SSTs (repackaged as Shockwaves) are fine at lower speeds (under about 1600 fps). Higher than that, if you hit bone or shoulder, a lot of people report poor penetration. SSTs generally shoot very well though.
The one bullet that always seems to perform well are the Barnes' line. MZ, TMZ and spitfires all get good penetration but they cost a little more.
In between are the bonded shockwaves but they also lose a decent percentage of weight.
There's always ML bullet discussions going on there. What you'll find is that different bullets perform at different speeds. Cheap bullets like XTPs and SSTs (repackaged as Shockwaves) are fine at lower speeds (under about 1600 fps). Higher than that, if you hit bone or shoulder, a lot of people report poor penetration. SSTs generally shoot very well though.
The one bullet that always seems to perform well are the Barnes' line. MZ, TMZ and spitfires all get good penetration but they cost a little more.
In between are the bonded shockwaves but they also lose a decent percentage of weight.
I've shot Shockwaves/SSTs all the way to 2,400fps and routinely shoot them at over 2,100fps and have driven them right through the shoulders of moose, elk and all things smaller. I'd hardly call an SST a cheap bullet.
Actually not a fan of the 300s at all...could never get them to shoot plus never really saw a need for a big bullet like that. I primarily shoot the 250s although I wish I could get the 200s to shoot out of my Omega as I've seen them do some incredible damage on very large critters. SSTs are one of those bullets that was perfectly designed for three pellet muzzleloaders...I'm not a fan of them in high-power rifles but at speeds under 2400fps, they are flat out great performers. I've recovered loads of them over the years and while weight rention may not rival a Barnes, they do penetrate well and they do kill. If you are looking to recover a perfectly mushroomed bullet from an animal, the SST likely isn't the bullet for you, although I have recovered lots like that, but if you want a super accurate bullet that kills animals dead, then it's a great bullet. Like all cup and core bullets, once it starts to tumble inside the animal, the jacket will occasionally seperate from the core but at that point, the damage is done. They most definitely don't explode!!!!
I happen to be one of those people that gets pleasure from shooting long distances with a muzzleloader so for me, 150 grain loads are indeed necessary. Each to their own I say. It takes a lot of time and effort to work up a load and consistently shoot at +200 yard ranges. Not sure why you'd make such a comment about what gives me pleasure and is extremely ethical.
MMP sabots with a 300 gr xtp out of my savage with 45 grs of IMR 4227. The load is 1.5" consistently at 100M. They will hit at 200M easily if you practice at the range first. This season between myself and two other friends using the same brand of rifle and load five deer at ranges from 50M to 180M were taken with no issues at all. Every one moved no more than a couple of steps before dropping.
Buy a savage if you don't care about being traditional. Smokeless is the way to go for hunting. I've hunted muzzle loader for 20 years and have owned and used TC , Knight, Gonic, and safari arms guns. I have used savage for two years now and will never use anything else again. The others simply cannot compare IMO
Buy a savage if you don't care about being traditional. Smokeless is the way to go for hunting. I've hunted muzzle loader for 20 years and have owned and used TC , Knight, Gonic, and safari arms guns. I have used savage for two years now and will never use anything else again. The others simply cannot compare IMO
Have you ever had any issues with the sabots? They seem to be the weak link in high velocity muzzleloader shooting as the photo I posted earlier in this thread demonstrates. Talked to Del at MMP about those sabots and he really didn't have an explaination but did replace them...unfortunately not the 20 bullets I shot trying to figure out what the heck was going on and all the hair I pulled out...lol
Anyone else had that issue with sabots?
You are not the only person who shoots animals at a distance with the smokepole.
You can get the same ballistics with less powder from a purpose built muzzeloader bullet (Long olgive, boattail, etc).
www.prbullet.com
But if you enjoy rocking your world with that charge - git r done
So you're trying to tell me that a very small (if any) increase in ballistic coefficient will give me the same type of performance as going with 50 extra grains of powder???? How much muzzleloader shooting have you done? Not much I'd venture to guess. I've run quite literally hundreds of bullets and loads over a chrony and through animals in the field, including those from PR and there is no replacement for velocity (providing the accuracy is there).
I'm not really sure what your link to PR was supposed to prove. They make some decent bullets but they sure aren't magic longrange bullets. Rather than the sniping comments and the posting of a link to a bullet manufacturer, why don't you share some of your experience with us to back up what you say.
Ya, the blue sabots are for the 200 grain/40 cal bullets. The black ones are for the 250s and 300s. I think it was a combination of pressure and and a bad batch of sabots. In speaking with Del it didn't sound that uncommon but I've yet to talk with anyone else that's had it happen. I took me about 20 rounds before I actually figued out that it was catotrosphic sabot failure. It was so bad that I could not consistently hit a 4'x4' target at 100 yards but when you look at the sabots it's no wonder. Oh well, it's a lesson learned and now anytime things aren't going right at the range, the first thing I check are the sabots.
The Savage seems to be the one with most sabot issues, just because of the velocities it can develop. Del did design a ballitic bridge to place between the sabot and powder to help but I've heard mixed reviews on it.
Pretty well every sabot that comes pre packed with a bullet today is made by MMP.
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Yep, I've heard of savages having sabot issues but it seems to be mostly when you use bullets smaller than 45. I check my primers when I'm working up loads and they'll usually start to bulge before blowing the sabots. I've heard of a few people getting results with the 40s but most seem to prefer the .451/.452s with HPH 12 or 24s if you have a tight barrel.
Out of curiosity, how did the PR bullets perform penetration wise?
Out of curiosity, how did the PR bullets perform penetration wise?
