Muzzle loader ID

[moonshot5]

I bought this at an auction recently. Maybe someone on this board has seen it before.

It is stamped (N?&)J. Dawes and has a weird polygon shaped barrel. I can't find any reference to Dawes as a gunmaker.

Anybody know anything about it? Thanks in advance.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56722204@N05/5470012842/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56722204@N05/5470007856/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56722204@N05/5469988932/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56722204@N05/5469405917/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56722204@N05/5469961498/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56722204@N05/5469365107/

 

[gabrielguitars]

The fact that the bore is 'polygonal' in shape is due simply to the fact that it is rifled with 7 lands and grooves, which is very common. What it looks like to me is an original Harper's Ferry that has been converted to percussion. The rib and the patchbox give it away for me. I'm no expert, but that would be my guess.

 

[mooncoon]

The lock is a converted flintlock and W & S Dawes are listed in one book as 1798 - 1812 in Birmingham. There was also a Dawes in Kent and another in London all about the same time period. I am guessing that W & J may have been another partnership of the William in W & S

cheers mooncoon

 

[moonshot5]

The fact that the bore is 'polygonal' in shape is due simply to the fact that it is rifled with 7 lands and grooves, which is very common. What it looks like to me is an original Harper's Ferry that has been converted to percussion. The rib and the patchbox give it away for me. I'm no expert, but that would be my guess.

You might be onto something here.

Barrel length is close (33 inches actual vs 33.25) to wikipedia.

The butt plate and patchbox look very close from what I can tell in the pictures. Mine did have a brass trigger guard at one time. There is still a piece of it there.

My trigger looks wrong though.

Maybe Dawes did the conversion to percussion cap or something.

There is nothing on it that says "Harper's Ferry" that I can see, but the dual insignias present (US and the other one) on the rifle on this website appear to be on mine.

Info below. For some reason , this one pictured has a 36 inch barrel.

http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f472.html

Thanks for the input.

 

[tiriaq]

This is the rifle that was at Switzer's recent auction?
The lock is a replacement. Converted to percussion, as mentionned. I believe the lock was salvaged from a British military firearm, and is about pistol size.
At first glance, I thought it was the relocked beaten about remains of a Harper's Ferry rifle. The general half stock style with patchbox is not unlike a Harper's Ferry. I am of the opinion that while similar, the rifle is not a Harper's Ferry. When I first saw it I thought, "Aha, what do we have here?" But after careful consideration, I decided it wasn't a Harper's Ferry. Of course, I've been wrong before.
I think most of the guns leaning in that pile in the corner were collected in Newfoundland. The general condition of the lot suggests that they were rode hard and put away wet. The various improvised home repairs is in keeping with this origin.

 

[moonshot5]

This is the rifle that was at Switzer's recent auction?
The lock is a replacement. Converted to percussion, as mentionned. I believe the lock was salvaged from a British military firearm, and is about pistol size.
At first glance, I thought it was the relocked beaten about remains of a Harper's Ferry rifle. The general half stock style with patchbox is not unlike a Harper's Ferry. I am of the opinion that while similar, the rifle is not a Harper's Ferry. When I first saw it I thought, "Aha, what do we have here?" But after careful consideration, I decided it wasn't a Harper's Ferry. Of course, I've been wrong before.
I think most of the guns leaning in that pile in the corner were collected in Newfoundland. The general condition of the lot suggests that they were rode hard and put away wet. The various improvised home repairs is in keeping with this origin.

I got it and 8 other toys/projects at Switzers.

I don't really know much about guns. I'm just getting into it. That being said, I am still leaning towards it being a HF or cobbled together from parts of one.

The barrel appears to have the marks on the photo below, underneath a bunch of varish/paint. Were these only put on an HF? Who knows.

I'll be getting very busy, very soon. It looks like this project will be shelved for a while.