Muzzleloader Issues

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cosmic

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I was out for the last few days exploiting the newly created muzzleloader season in my area. I had sighted the rifle in in the fall (Rossi break-action) using Hodgdon 777 ( 2 pellets), Rem primers, and 300 gr Powerbelts.
Season ended yesterday, and I decided to go to the range to play a bit with loads. To my surprise and chagrin, the first shot failed to ignite. Pulled back the hammer again and got a PFFFT - the primer had ignited but failed to ignite the powder charge - it just pushed everthing out the barrel.
Reloaded, and the rifle fired, albeit the impact was substantially lower than expected. Took a break for lunch, and to reflect. Went back and fired three more shots - all ignited, however, the shots rose progressively to reach my expected POI - about 14 inches at 75 y.
It would appear that I'm getting partial ignition - something I've never experienced with smokess centerfire reloading. Primer strikes seem normal - temp was ~ - 4 C.
Are these rigs sensitive to temperature? On my last string, things seem to sort themselves out as the barrel temp rose...
 
You really have to keep the small hole in the breech plug clear because triple 7 and other fake black powders are very hard to ignite. I used a proper sized drill bit to keep it open, you would be surprised at how that hole decreases in size through normal use and cleaning, you really need to "drill" it out everytime you clean it. I forget the size of drill as I don't have the gun anymore but when it was new the drill would pass through, after using/cleaning it a few times, no way that drill was going to pass without alot of effort.
 
No - The bore was clean and dry, at least to start. I did note that there was a lot of crud in the breech plug, and did clean it between sessions. I'm going to go back tomorrow for more trials.
 
Maybe your powder (pellets) is damp? I'm not an inline guy and I stick to black powder. I hunted with a muzzle loader this season with my double percussion shotgun. Fired it yesterday and both went off without a hitch. And that's after being out all season in typical north Vancouver island weather. If the rest of your pellets are giving you trouble I would inspect them.

Cheers, Steve.
 
I'm using the Remington Kleen-Bore ML 209's... I also have some Federal Fusion 209's that I'm going to try. In retrospect, the fact that I had no ignition at all for the first shot (ie was able to recock and shoot using the same primer has me suspicious - I'm going to clean up the firing pin hammer assy before my next session. The gun was purchased new, perhaps thees some grease or crud interfering with matters.
 
Hello,

Switch to musket caps, or 209 shotgun primers if you're allowed to do so.

Triple 7 doesn't really ignite all that well with regular caps. CCI Magnum caps, maybe.

Regards,

Josh
 
Well, I guess we crossed posts. You ARE using 209s.

As I said, Triple 7 is pretty hard to ignite at times. How does it do with FFg black and/or Pyrodex?

Josh
 
The gun is relatively new - havent has much chance to play with it. I have a bud who bought the same rifle as me, so were going to do an experiment - my components in his rifle. This should help prove things out...
 
I have a friend with the same rifle and he has to keep the bolt clean or it will fail to ignite the primer. He says after only a few shots crud builds up in the bolt if he has the cover on it . I don't know the rifle at all so this is only second hand info.
 
Judging by post #8 ; it sounds like an firing pin issue. But, I've also had problems with the Rem Kleenbore primers (with Pyrodex) and I understand that 777 is even harder to ignite.

My current set up is Blackhorn 209 powder with Federal 209A primers. Blackhorn actually states that one should stay away from ML specific primers.
w ww.blackhorn209.com/specs/primers/

As a side note, I have some Powerbelts, and have no real complaints (since I can hit a 3" circle at 150yds)--I'm sure it's smaller then that, but I can get much tighter groups using Hornady SST.

Interesting about the temp. I'm wondering if the "weaker" primers and the cooler temp caused the FTF? I've shot my CVA after sitting 6 hours in -20C weather. My set up was Federal 209A primers, 100 grain of 777 and topped with 300gr Hornady SST; I also use a barrel condom, when out hunting, to keep rain/snow out of the barrel.
 
Update - I went through the process of eliminating variables. I cleaned the firing pin hammer assy. Checked firing pin play and protrusion - all OK. Re-cleaned breech plug. I had taken a pin to the range for my last session, and had worked the primer hole to keep it clear. However, this time I immersed it in hot water, and worked it with a toothpick.
To my surprise, I was able to remove a substantial ring of crud from the hole - I had forgotten the size of original diameter - another middle age moment....
So now I'm going to wait until it cools down, and have at it again. Lets hope the plugged hole is a cause and not an effect. Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
 
Once I take a loaded muzzle loader out in cold weather, I never bring it back into the house until my hunting is over. Bringing a cold rifle into a warm space causes condensation (moisture) which can ruin your load. I leave my rifle in the garage or trunk of my car. Never had a fail to fire.
 
Update - Did some more investigations. I went back to the range with a clean breech plug, and trigger assy. Got a FTF, recocked, the same thing. I noticed there was a weak primer strike. Swapped primers, same thing, although it fired on recock.
Took a straight edge, and measured the primer face relative to the breech face - looked like about 40-50 thou. Thinking this was too much, I backed out the breech plug by 1/4 turn, bringing the primer flush. Ignition problems gone - rifle groups nicely with Hornady FPB 300 grainers.
Got home, checked my Rem primers against Fusion primers. The Fusions come closer to the breech face by about 15 thou, this may solve the problem.
I dont know whether my rifle is "in spec" or not, at this point. I'm going to have a look at my buddies rifle (same model) and see. Can anyone give me some comparable values for primer recess at the breechface, mine does seem excessive?
 
I don,t think the problem is your powder. triple 7 is a great substitute but needs a hot primer. all 209's are not made equal. each has it's own dimensions and burn temp. the best i have found is the 209 made by Cheddite. if you have found a 209 that works in your rifle and powder , stay with it. or try others ,they are cheap to buy.
 
Been following your problem. I'm not a black powder guy but I do have a box of Cheddite 209's (100) Bought on the "spur of the moment" a couple years ago. No real need for them as I use a couple other brands for my shot shell reloading. You can have them to try if you want. Send me a PM or I think you already have my number.

Old Ranger
 
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