Muzzleloader value?

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steveyb4342

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Hey everyone,

I have the chance to buy a double barrel muzzleloader. It appears to be very old. The stock is beat up and the barrels/action is getting rusty. It needs to be restored. It was made by Smith and the barrels say "London" on top and "14" on the bottom. Just wondering if anyone could give me a ball park price of what this would be worth? Ans where i could find the percussion caps?

Thanks Steve
 
It is always tricky without seeing the piece in question to accurately give a value. Sounds like a wall hanger so I'd guess it might be worth $25.00 to $50.00. You can buy percussion caps at most gun shops.
 
If it is sound, a bit neglected, it would be worth somewhat more than that. But it really does depend on condition. Go easy on any restoration, use a delicate touch. And don't even think about firing it unless it has been carefully inspected by someone who knows what to look for.
 
It seems to be quite sound. Any restoration would only be refinishing the stock and maybe the barrels. Mechanically it seems to be functioning great through dry fires and a quick peak at the parts seems fine. The only think that I would really wonder about is the barrels. Who and how could those be checked? Id like to be able to fire the gun.

Thanks Steve
 
Price depends on condition A Birmingham gun in mildly rusty condition but serviceable probably runs 3-400. In poor condition drop that down to 100. The London on the top does not mean it is a London gun check the proof marks on the bottom of the barrel. Main thing is post some photos.
Also listen to Tiriaq and have a knowledgeable person inspect the gun. And that is a person who is knowledgeable of original muzzle loaders as opposed to a run of the mill gunsmith who is familiar with modern guns.

cheers mooncoon
 
I would suggest that refinishing the stock and barrels would reduce the value, and would not enhance the desirability of the gun. Careful cleaning and stabilization of the piece would be more appropriate.
Personally, I am not averse to shooting antiques in sound condition, although there are those who advise against shooting any gun with welded barrels. In some respects, the best shooters might be guns that are mechanically sound, but cosmetically challenged - you don't have to worry about a bit of wear and tear.
There were a number of Smiths in the gunmaking trade.
 
Im not really into the gun for value. Id be more impressed with a wall hanger BUT! I would like to be able to fire it.

Thanks Steve
 
 
Steve, the gun doesn't need refinishing.... to do so would be 'wrong' in most gun buff's eyes. One point that concerns me... Has the rib been re-soldered? I can see a bit of silver around the rib, but can't tell if it is camera shine or solder. If it has been re-soldered, I would leave it as a wall hanger.
 
The gun looks much better in your photos than your description suggested.
As Smokepole has suggested, check to see if the top rib has lifted.
If the gun were mine, I would gently clean the metal with fine bronze wool and oil, and use a rag and some linseed on the stock. IF the bores are good, barrels sound, nipples in good order, the gun COULD be a shooter. But you really want to be sure, before firing it.
One of my favourites is a 14ga double made I think by William Smith, probably late 1850s. Excellent shooter.
 
Sorry guys, I guess Im used to seeing shiney finishes and clean guns lol. There appears to be no lifting or any major damage I can see on the barrels. Does anyone know of anyone here in Nova Scotia that would be able to confirm the gun as a good shooter?

How would one identify the builder of this gun? Or any other information about it.

So far what Ive gathered is that its a double barrel, percussion cap shotgun made by a "Smith", most likely mid 1800's, the barrels say "LONDON", the barrels have British proofs on the bottom, the barrels say "14" on the bottom on the breach end, they also say "22" {it appears} about 3/4 the way up the barrels and last but not least it appears to say "BP" with a crown above it on the barrels on the breach end.

Anyone that could chime in with any more info would be greatly appreciated and thank you to those of you who have helped already!

Thanks Steve
 
The 14 at the breach is the guage. the 22 is a sort of serial number ---probably batch number would be a better description. London on the top rib was almost certainly put there to sell the gun because true London guns were usually better made than Birmingham guns where your gun was probably made.
The question of when was it made is asked on this forum quite commonly. People need to realize that there were hundreds of small gun making and gun finishing shops in Britain in the 1800s. Some shops or individuals made only components such as locks or stocked barrels, some made complete guns or bought them in a rough finished form and finished them. While guns made by the prominent makers can be approximately dated by addresses on the ribs or company names, for the small makers and companies this may not be the case because they may have stayed at an address for many years. The only good reference that I am aware of is "die Neue Stockel" which is in 2 or more volumes, written in German and costs in the range of $3-400 secondhand since I believe it is out of print. The name literally translates to "the new Stockel" and Stockel was a danish author who wrote the first edition. There is also "Birmingham Gunsmiths" also out of print and quite expensive and referring only to Birmingham gunsmiths (surprisingly enough)
A final note would be that british gunsmiths often labelled guns with the name of the retailer and exported them to North America so that you have to decide if you are looking at a maker's name or a retailer's name.

cheers mooncoon
 
nice beater double! I like it's character, but have absolutely nothing to contribute as to it's value, except that despite the antique's roadshow dreams that seem to be ubiquitous, these guns are never worth all that much.

I wouldn't refinish it if I were you, that gun has earned that patina.

I do know photography a little bit though, and I'd suggest two things.

1. Move back a little and stay parallel to the gun so everything is in focus. Remember your camera has a minimum distance it needs to be in focus, most off the rack digitals need abou 3-5 feet.

2. Go outside, on a somewhat overcast day to get some decent light.

People forget that our pupils dilate, so it seems about as bright inside as it does outside, but it's never the case.
 
Thanks for the info guys!

Ill try to take the photography points into account next time, sorry about that lol.

If anyone else has anything to add on feel free.

Thanks Steve
 
Steve;
I've been restoring for 30 years. You do have to know how far to go go and when to 'lay off'. That gun looks pretty good as is. I would just let it hang, keep it oiled sparingly, don't want to soften the wood anymore than it is. To determine whether or not the barrels are 'sound', remove them from the stock, suspend them from a heavy, thin string or cord. Tie it to the front ramrod spindle. Using a light ball peen hammer or something similar, gently tap up and down the barrels. This is called 'ringing the barrels'. If they ring like a church bell.......good chance they are 'sound'. If you hear a 'dull thud', you have a crack or the solder has let go. Personally, I would just hang it and enjoy the compliments while the gun remains intact.

Regards
Mark

trapline.ca
 
Ive sorta got my heart set on fireing it if its safe. Thanks for the advice Ill give it a try. I hope they turn out to be alright.


Thanks Steve
 
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