My 20+ new milsurps (56k warning)

[TheIndifferent1]

Quite an x-mas present I got! My very first gun (s)

Only a few pics right now, I'm tired as hell and have been working on my gun room all day. These guns were sitting stationary for over two decades, and so had a good coat of dust, cobwebs etc on them. I just gave them a light dusting just to read the markings. All of them so far seem to have good bores/rifling (at least to my untrained eye), but many have some surface rust on the bolts/barrels/receivers. Blueing isn't great either. They likely have more shooting value than collector value.

I need some help with a few things though. For the Lee-Enfield carbine below, I need help figuring out what it is - never seen one like this.

Also, for the few that I post pictures up, if you guys could give me a ballpark value for them, that would be most helpful - some of these may end up in EE but not for a while (most are unregistered, I will not sell them unregistered so please don't ask. I need to do some research on them and a more thorough cleaning before I decide what will go up for sale).

Hope you guys like my new collection, and I know I'm a lucky SOB I hope you all like my socks - the camera wouldn't focus properly without them in the frame

Ok, what is this rifle? Markings are:
on the band near the trigger left side - A crown stamp, with "Enfield 1903 L.E.C. II*" written below

band on right side: "N (arrow) Z 52 1905"
Magazine is a 5 shot with a cutoff. The sight starts at 200 and goes up to 500. The safety is on the right side of the striker and can be switched off by your thumb. On the receiver "D P" is stamped. The person I got it from said it was "drill purpose" and is likely unsafe to fire. Is this true? It's a cool little carbine, I'd love to shoot it.

Here's a Ross - unfortunatly it has some white paint on the stock, and is missing the front sight. Rifling isn't too great near the muzzle either, not sure how deep it should be though.Outside of the barrel is pitted and has some surface rust - is it salvageable?

Two Swiss rifles. Can you buy the surplus ammo for these? Again, surface rust on bolt/barrel/mag

Model 1903 Springfield. Bore is filled with crap and I need to scrub it tomorrow. Lots of cobwebs Also pushed some rust-dust out the end... Hope it ends up being serviceable as the rifling looks pretty deep. Made by Remington it seems.

French Lebel. Have this in rifle and carbine. Anyone have any info on these? Nothing on surplusrifle.com I'll get more detailed pics tomorrow if anyone is interested.

Hope this pics don't come out too big. Looks like surface rust is going to be my biggest issue Any suggestions and info is welcome

 

[ollie]

And I thought I got lucky for Christmas! Nice score! Keep me in mind if you decide to part with that Springfield!

 

[762Russian]

Ok, what is this rifle? Markings are:
on the band near the trigger left side - A crown stamp, with "Enfield 1903 L.E.C. II*" written below

band on right side: "N (arrow) Z 52 1905"
Magazine is a 5 shot with a cutoff. The sight starts at 200 and goes up to 500. The safety is on the right side of the striker and can be switched off by your thumb. On the receiver "D P" is stamped. The person I got it from said it was "drill purpose" and is likely unsafe to fire. Is this true? It's a cool little carbine, I'd love to shoot it.

That looks like a chopped, dropped and lowered Long-Lee... the bayonet lug is a dead giveaway... but I've not seen anything like that.

The only thing I could think of for it would be that it was a Cavalry carbine... judging by the year of make (1903) it would have been made in time for the Boer war and of course the Great War, both of which Cavalry was still used...

In any case, that is one HELL of a haul

 

[Hitzy]

Some DP rifles were de-milled before hand so they will not be shooters, look for holes drilled in the chamber or barrel. Others were just standard rifles and in perfect working order.
That looks like a Lee Enfield Mk1 Carbine missing the hanndguard.
The swiss rifles are easy to load for, but there is a bit of GP11 around, check with TSE. I wouldn't shoot it in the 1889 though (one with the big mag), the K11 will be fine.

 

[tiriaq]

The LEC would appear to be a NZ pattern carbine, one of 1 000 ordered. Look under the bolt handle for an "NZ". It is missing its handguard. The DP stamp is too be expected; often found on obsolete rifles.
The Ross is a later production Mk. III. The Springfield was made early in WW2.
The rust evident on the rifles pictured is superficial. They should clean up very nicely. The work needs to be done properly, of course. Gently, without aggressive methods.
Congratulations on acquiring a very interesting collection.

 

[m39a2]

Your Ross looks complete. There was no wood on top past the handguard you already have. I'll take a look in my spare box to see if I can come up with a front sight and hood plus the 4 screws to hold the hood on.

Scott

 

[SKScanuck]

Well it took me about three years to get that many...

Congrats...

 

[Sgt Striker]

Your LE Carbine has not been chopped, you have what's called a RIC carbine which stands for Royal Irish Constabulary. They were convered LEC's used by the Irish police in the early 1900's. Too bad you're missing the top wood. You should be able to see the R.I.C. on the marking disc.

But I could be wrong, is there an enlagerment of the barrel at the muzzel end?

 

[Tbolt]

That is a nice haul.
Quite the Christmas present.

Enjoy.

 

[green]

The LEC is a NZ pattern. It differs from the RIC in having the heavier non spliced fore end.

 

[TheIndifferent1]

The LEC would appear to be a NZ pattern carbine, one of 1 000 ordered. Look under the bolt handle for an "NZ". It is missing its handguard. The DP stamp is too be expected; often found on obsolete rifles.

Yep, it has NZ under the bolt handle. I'd take more pics but the rifle is now 3 hours away.

Any guesses what the little guy is worth? Once I clean it up I'll inspect for any holes - if there are and it is unsafe to fire I was thinking of deactivating it and letting my dad have it as a wall hanger.

Here are some more pics:

Czech Mauser

No 5

Surface rust on one of the Swiss rifles

Cool little cavalry carbine, but it's 2am and for the life of me I can't remember what it is (Italian 1889 something):

Mosin-Nagant

No 4 (Savage?)

No 1 that was reblued and had the stock refinished

Here's another interesting carbine, I believe made before the turn of the 20th century (1890s)

I brought a few back with me to clean up more thoroughly, if I can borrow my friend's digital camera I'll get some closeups of the Springfield, Mosin and the No 4 which has some interesting markings.

I know, I'm a lucky SOB Earlier this year I said "I want to own one of each major rifle of WW1 and WW2" and minus a Garand I think I did that in one fell swoop!

 

[Andy]

Your post made my morning - a real feast for the eyes. Caches like your often end up at the police station (as we know the weapon of choice for gang-bangers if the Schmidt-Rubin M1889), so it's nice to see them "back with the living".

That light surface rust can be removed and stopped, but light pitting might be left - not good, but not a real big deal. The bores might be better, but run a few swabs through first.

As for values, get a range from Gunnutz for all of them before you do too much. They haven't all been identified clearly, and condition and originality matter a lot, but IMHO:

Schmidt-Rubin M1911 - $250-400
Schmidt-Rubin M1889 - $200-350
Springfield M1903 - $400-600
Savage No4 MkI - $250-400
No 1 Mk III - $150-300
Ross - $300-450
Mosin - $125-300
Jungle Carbine - $300-400
VZ-24 - $200-350
Various Carcanos - $125-250
Various Berthiers - $125-300
Spanish Carbine (?) - $200-300
The LEC - I don't know, but it's scarce and might be the best of the bunch

 

[tiriaq]

Don't even consider doing anything to the LEC. These rifles were DP marked because they were obsolete, not because they were unsafe. May well have ended up with a cadet corps. Sooner or later, a handguard will turn up. The last one I saw for sale was $700, and its stock had been redone. With a correct handguard yours should be worth more than that.

 

[Timberlord]

I sat my wife down and showed her all these fantastic rifles and said
" WoW !! ..look at these rifles ,hon....you thought I had alot ."
She immediately looked at me ( with that shewolf stare ) and said ,
" There's AnOTher gunshow coming up soon ..isn't there..."
I think I gave it away when I called her , hon

...Anyway , Congrats on the new collection ! and I hope/want/need to see more of them.

 

[JP]

Nice pieces, the Lebels are really a Berthier Model 1892 Artillery carbine and a Berthier Model 1907/15 Infantry rifle. I also see a couple of nice Dutch Mannlicher rifles. Prices depend on the cleaning process and how well the original finish on the metal and wood is preserved. Also depends on matching numbers, Arsenal markings, year of production, etc......

Example: Delauney-Belleville on the Berthier is a big plus, one of the rarer markings. They only made 07/15 actions during WW1, which were assembled by the various french arsenal into many different model as needed.

 

[TheIndifferent1]

Your post made my morning - a real feast for the eyes. Caches like your often end up at the police station (as we know the weapon of choice for gang-bangers if the Schmidt-Rubin M1889), so it's nice to see them "back with the living".

Much appreciated These rifles were saved from sinking to the bottom of Lake Ontario. My friend always had them hanging over his head so to speak, because he never registered them but didn't want to be caught with them (pre amnesty). He was going to dump them this spring. I told him I'd take them off his hands and he jumped at the chance

I'll post some pictures of the straight-pull Austrians that I have in a minute. The bolt is out of one of them as it was stuck, I gave a good yank and it came right out - now the lugs are misaligned and I couldn't reinsert it When I go back to Ottawa I'll play around with it a bit and see if I can reinsert it again.

Thanks for the info on the Lebel/Berthiers JP

 

[Andy]

Much appreciated I'll post some pictures of the straight-pull Austrians that I have in a minute. The bolt is out of one of them as it was stuck, I gave a good yank and it came right out - now the lugs are misaligned and I couldn't reinsert it When I go back to Ottawa I'll play around with it a bit and see if I can reinsert it again.

Ahhh, be careful or you'll get nipped - you might want to wear gloves until you get the hang of it.

- pull back on the bolthead with two fingers, one other side of the extractor until it "locks" into place. Once that is accomplished,
- carefully place the bolt back into the receiver, placing the lugs on the bottom of the bolt into the recess in the receiver tang first.

The bolthead has a tendency to snap at you without apparent provocation - that's why we call guns "girls". Might take a couple of tries.

Please though - no more "good yanks"

 

[TheIndifferent1]

I have 24 rifles in all right now, and my friend said he may find another 2 or 3 when he digs a little deeper.

More pics:

P14 that is missing some screws:

Austrian Steyer Mannlicher (can't remember if it's an 1895 or an 88/90, I need to check my book) rifle and matching carbine

Can't remember what this is, anyone know? I don't have it here to check.

More unknowns, I should have labeled the image files but that would have been too easy wouldn't it? I'll learn all their names eventually, but with so many and being new to this it'll take a while.

I think these are 1895 Spanish Mausers (rifle and carbine)

My friend had a real penchant for collecting rifle and carbine pairs, luckly for me

 

[TheIndifferent1]

Ahhh, be careful or you'll get nipped - you might want to wear gloves until you get the hang of it.

- pull back on the bolthead with two fingers, one other side of the extractor until it "locks" into place. Once that is accomplished,
- carefully place the bolt back into the receiver, placing the lugs on the bottom of the bolt into the recess in the receiver tang first.

The bolthead has a tendency to snap at you without apparent provocation - that's why we call guns "girls". Might take a couple of tries.

Please though - no more "good yanks"

Cool, thanks I'll definitely wear gloves! I'm not a very big guy, so a good yank for me is probably less than what a typical Austrian soldier put the rifle though There was probably a bunch of crud keeping it from opening (the carbine opened no problem). I won't reinsert the bolt until it gets a good cleaning.

 

[Claven2]

Your LE Carbine has not been chopped, you have what's called a RIC carbine which stands for Royal Irish Constabulary. They were convered LEC's used by the Irish police in the early 1900's. Too bad you're missing the top wood. You should be able to see the R.I.C. on the marking disc.

But I could be wrong, is there an enlagerment of the barrel at the muzzel end?

No, it's not an RIC. It's a NZD pattern carbine, but missing the handguard. They are virtually all DP and 99% have mismatched bolts b/c the bolts were shipped separate from the rifles when they were surplussed.

In this case the DP doesn't mean unserviceable. All NZD carbines were stamped DP after WW1 and were used for parades and such before being surplused.