My apologies to the mods.... but 80% AR15 again

PsyEx said:
Don't forget that you need a Firearms Manufacturer License inorder to complete an 80% forging.:rolleyes: It says that right on Dlasks site. The Jig is like $250 from a certian site off of arf.com:eek: Not that I know from experience;) .

only if you are planing on making them to sell. if you make one for yourself, you still can sell it though. but if it's the third fourth or fifth you're selling, i'd expect a visit from a federal agency to get their fair share of your money.
 
I have the tap, and have used it for another project involving a Lee Enfield. No, I do not intend to lend it out. Brownells has them.

So, suppose I had in my posession a raw casting that I use as a paperweight on top of my gunsafe. I do not intend to ever complete this casting into a firearm, and since I lack the intent, apparently that means it is not a firearm or a receiver.

If however, I do ever change my mind, and decide that I do want to complete this as a firearm, then I suppose I must immediately contact the CFC and inform them, request a FIN for it, and so label it prior to beginning work.

That's how I interpret this.

NS
 
Yup. And yup again for the word count.

NavyShooter said:
I have the tap, and have used it for another project involving a Lee Enfield. No, I do not intend to lend it out. Brownells has them.

So, suppose I had in my posession a raw casting that I use as a paperweight on top of my gunsafe. I do not intend to ever complete this casting into a firearm, and since I lack the intent, apparently that means it is not a firearm or a receiver.

If however, I do ever change my mind, and decide that I do want to complete this as a firearm, then I suppose I must immediately contact the CFC and inform them, request a FIN for it, and so label it prior to beginning work.

That's how I interpret this.

NS
 
FWIW, I contacted CFC a while back, as I planned on building a 50BMG bolt action. I wanted to have the papers in order before starting. They would not make a registration form for me as there was nothing to register or measure for dimensions. They told me to build the reciever, photograph it, and have a verifier fill out the forms, then they would issue a registration for it. Then after I completed the gun, I would notify them of the change from bare reciever to working gun, and they would update the records.
Several months went by, I didn't do any work on it, and they sent a letter saying that I have to keep them informed. I told them that I still want to, but have not done any work on it, so the file is still open.

Read what you want into that.
 
If I am not mistaken, Regina v. Rogan made clear that the third part of the definition of firearm in the CCC is ambiguous...that the word "firearm" cannot be used to define the word Firearm.
 
peckerwood said:
If I am not mistaken, Regina v. Rogan made clear that the third part of the definition of firearm in the CCC is ambiguous...that the word "firearm" cannot be used to define the word Firearm.


my google-fu is weak...do you have a link to this case? if not which court and time frame was it?

Boltgun
 
I spoke with several people from the RCMP in this respect a while back...

The techs weren't sure...

The people at the "revocation" unit that are supposedly in charge of making interpretations said as soon as you had intent to make it into a firearm, the tools and the casting then it could be considered a firearm.

They said only the courts could really settle the matter as it hadn't been tested...

That being said it was too much bull#### and I just went and bought a complete frame from Wolverine and assembled it myself...
 
R. v. Rogan** Unedited **

Indexed as: R. v. Rogan

Between

Her Majesty The Queen, Applicant,

and

Dean Kenneth Rogan, (Respondent)


[1994] A.J. No.341
DRS 94-10020
Action No.20706586H10101

Alberta Provincial Court
Judicial District of Vegreville
Demetrick Prov. Ct. J.

April 28, 1994.
(57 pp.)


Criminal law — Sentencing — Weapons prohibition — Civil rights — Trials, due
process, fundamental justice and fair hearings.

Application for an order prohibiting the respondent from possessing any
firearm, ammunition or explosive substance, as well as for a forfeiture order
for a weapon seized. At issue was whether the seized item was a prohibited
weapon under paragraph 84(1)(c) of the Criminal Code.

HELD: The Sten Mark V receiver was not a prohibited weapon. Parliament
should have spent more time in attacking the underlying causes of crime and in
promoting informed responsible private gun ownership rather than investing time,
effort and expense to make Canada's gun laws more comprehensive and restrictive.

This, given federal and provincial debt, would have enhanced the security of
individuals more. Machine gun part ordered released to the respondent.

STATUTES, REGULATIONS AND RULES CITED:
Criminal Code, R.S.C. 1985, c. C-46, ss. 84(1), 85(1), 100(4), 100(6), 102.
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, 1982, ss. 1, 7, 8, 11(d), 12.
Prohibited Weapons Order No. 11, SOR/92-465.
Prohibited Weapons Order No. 9, SOR/92-463.
N. Wiberg, for the Applicant (Crown).
The Respondent appeared in person.

1 DEMETRICK PROV. CT. J.:— The present dispute came before the court in
the form of a written application under s. 100(4) of the Criminal Code for an
order prohibiting the Respondent from possessing any firearm, ammunition or
explosive substance. Before evidence was called in the hearing, Crown counsel
made it clear what the Applicant actually wanted was an order of forfeiture for
one specific item seized previously from the Respondent. With consent of the
litigants the hearing went forward on March 3, 1994 only as a forfeiture hearing
under s. 102 of the Code and not as a prohibition hearing under s. 100(6). The
Code in s. 84(1) provides a lengthy definition for the phrase "prohibited
weapon". Paragraph (c) of that definition is the dispute's foundation. The
fundamental issues to be determined are: whether the hollow metal object seized
from the Respondent falls within paragraph (c) and whether it does so in a way
justifying its forfeiture.

2 The dispute incorporates a complex intertwining of gun law and gun
technology. In recent years Canada's gun law has expanded into a large
convoluted legal tangle. Under it responsible persons have been deprived of
their lawfully acquired guns by Government without compensation from Government.
Other persons, irresponsible and ill-intentioned, continue serious crime
undeterred by it. Some portions of that law are straightforward and well suited
to provide protection to the general public without creating unnecessary legal
peril or inconvenience for those honest responsible citizens who prefer to
possess guns. Other portions are abstruse and seem to have the potential for
providing more legal peril and inconvenience to honest responsible gun owners
than real protection to the general public. Canada's foremost jurists disagree
among themselves upon what some key portions of Canada's gun law mean but lay
persons under threat of Criminal Code sanctions are required to understand all
of it perfectly and to obey all of it completely.

3 Current gun law is not only legally complex. It is politically and
socially controversial. Its debate often invokes more emotion than reason. Sane,
honest, intelligent, responsible, law-abiding, "anti-gun" people point to the
current phenomena of suicides, accidents and crimes involving guns. They ask,
"why would any honest responsible private citizen want to possess guns?".
Equally sane, honest, intelligent, responsible, law-abiding "pro-gun people"
point to other phenomena:

(a)numerous past and present political events, such as the European-based
Holocaust of this century, wherein private citizens' own rulers, or those
of some other nation, have herded them about unarmed and defenceless like
sheep and have slaughtered or mistreated them upon whim with the ease of
shepherds butchering lambs;
(b)numerous incidents of violent individuals with or without guns
assaulting, wounding, raping, robbing, or killing law-abiding but
defenceless Canadians in their homes and elsewhere;
(c)the current success of Canada's legal system in curbing violent crime
and in controlling violent criminals young and old;
(d)the harmless, if not beneficial, sporting pleasures to be derived by
responsible private citizens from possessing and using guns;
(e)the historic and artistic value of some guns as artifacts of history or
works of art.

Those pro-gun people ask, "Why would any honest responsible private citizen not
want to possess guns?".

4 This judgment concludes the forfeiture hearing and attempts to
constitute a reasoned legal analysis covering a small but key portion of the
Code's firearm provisions.
Unless one has some knowledge of how the various pieces of a gun function and
has some acquaintance with the technical names for gun parts it can be difficult
to understand fully the factual and legal complexities of this case. To assist
those unfamiliar with firearms and firearms terminology a contrived dialogue
between a Crown counsel and a judge is provided as a prelude. The dialogue
relates to cars - things likely more familiar to many than guns are. It is meant
to portray the essence what this present dispute is about and to function as a
reference base for the legal discussion coming after it which specifically
relates to firearms and the law applicable to them.

COUNSEL(having brought a frame for a car into the courtroom):
Your Honour, the Crown wants you to determine
whether this car is a "high speed" car.

JUDGE:That is a strange request. It is plain to see what you have here is
just a car frame. In reality it is not a car at all.

COUNSEL:I agree, but Parliament wants us to pretend this car frame is
really a car.

JUDGE:Are you sure that's what Parliament wants?

COUNSEL:It would seem so because Parliament says three basic things are
cars: (1) cars are cars; (2) car frames are cars; and (3) all things that
can be adapted to be cars or car frames are cars.

JUDGE:Okay, I pretend your car frame is a car. What test does Parliament
say I should use to determine whether your "pretend car" is a high speed
car?

COUNSEL:parliament says a high speed car is a car that is capable of high
speed. Perhaps Your Honour will be interested to hear I recently took a
real fully functioning car - not a mere car frame as I have here - before
eight high ranking judges. I asked them to use Parliament's test and
determine whether that real car was a high speed car.

JUDGE:What answer did they give you?

COUNSEL:Using Parliament's test four judges said it was a high speed car
and four said it wasn't. Because of differences in ranking among the
judges I had to accept it was a high speed car. If Your Honour is
concerned that perhaps you don't fully understand Parliament's test I have
some news for you.

JUDGE:What news?

COUNSEL:Three of the higher ranked judges who looked at my real car and
found it to be a high speed car have reworded Parliament's test.

JUDGE:What's their wording of Parliament's test?

COUNSEL:They began by saying the word "capable" as used in the test must
be given some reasonable restriction. They went on to say in their view a
high speed car should mean a car capable of conversion to a high speed car
in a relatively short period of time with relative ease. They ended by
saying where a car can be quickly and readily converted to a car capable
of high speed it must fall within the definition of a high speed car.

JUDGE:On the matter of conversion did they have in mind conversion by
experienced car mechanics possessed of all the necessary technical data,
tools, parts and raw material? Did they have in mind a car owner possessed
of household tools, no car parts, no technical knowledge and little
knowledge of where to obtain those things? In other words, did they have
in mind conversion by an ordinary modern day car owner who knows how to
put gas in the tank, how to start it up, how to drive it, how to clean it
and who knows little about how or why the car actually works?

COUNSEL:It seems they had the latter group in mind. The car expert who
looked at my car before the eight judges did, said it could be converted
to a high speed car in any one of three ways:

(1)by drilling a bigger hole in the fuel line which he said was a
ten-minute job for anyone with "reasonable knowledge" of the car.
(2)by pulling out one pin and replacing the whole fuel injector assembly
with another one readily available at local car dealerships.
(3)by pulling out one pin and replacing the whole fuel injector assembly
with a toy car one readily available at local toy stores.

JUDGE:When the three judges spoke of "a relatively short period of time"
and "relative ease" did they say what "time" and "ease" were relative to?

COUNSEL:I don't think so.

JUDGE:I'll examine this car frame presently in front of me and let you
know in due time whether I'm satisfied it is a high speed car.


The Facts

The evidence in this hearing consists of:
(1)Some facts agreed upon by the litigants.
(2)Viva voce testimony under oath from the Respondent and two persons
having expert knowledge concerning the mechanical workings of firearms.
(3)Seven exhibits in document form and two in the form of metallic objects.

5 The hearing is in substance a s. 102 hearing. If the forfeiture sought
by the Applicant is to occur the Crown must prove through the evidence and to a
balance of probabilities the hollow metal object, Exhibit 1, seized from the
Respondent is a prohibited weapon within meaning of the Code.

6 All three witnesses testified in a candid and forthright manner.
Nothing about their behaviour during their presence at the hearing on March 3,
1994 suggested any one of them was trying to mislead the court in any way. Each
witness appeared to have been making an effort to be as accurate as possible in
giving testimony. Of the three the Respondent's firearms expert, Mr. D.A.
Tomlinson, was the witness best able to testify accurately about the history and
workings of Sten guns. His detailed knowledge about the mechanical aspects of
many other firearms too was obvious. The Applicant's firearms expert, Mr. A.J.
Voth, displayed the type of detailed knowledge one would expect a firearms
expert to have but it was clear he was not as familiar with the mechanical
workings of Sten guns as Mr. Tomlinson was. The Respondent himself displayed
some knowledge about the mechanical workings of firearms including Sten guns but
his knowledge was not equal to that of the two experts.

7 Established to a balance of probabilities by the hearing's evidence are
the following specific facts:

(1) In early September, 1991, Mr. Rogan, the Respondent, came upon an
opportunity to purchase a Sten gun that had been converted to fire in
semi-automatic fashion only.
(2) In an effort to make sure there was nothing illegal about the
proposed purchase he consulted gun dealers and the Commanding Officer of the
R.C.M.P. detachment at Vermilion, Alberta.
(3) Mr. Rogan showed the said Officer a photocopy of the previous owner's
registration of the Sten gun.
(4) The Officer said he didn't see why Mr. Rogan would have a problem to
register the gun and signed a form allowing the gun to be shipped to the
detachment for registration purposes.
(5) On October 19, 1991 Mr. Rogan attended at the detachment. He
observed a Constable handling the gun. The Constable finished filling out a
registration form for the gun and released the firearm to the Respondent.
(6) On January 18, 1992 the Constable phoned Mr. Rogan at his farm saying
he had a request to send the gun into the police laboratory for testing.
(7) The Respondent tried to convince the Constable to test the gun
himself on the Respondent's farm or at a local gun range.
(8) Mr. Rogan felt if his gun went into the laboratory for testing he was
unlikely to see it again and told the Constable about his concern.

8 This Court digresses to observe Mr. Rogan's fear was not necessarily
unreasonable. As has happened to him, in Ontario in 1989 a responsible citizen
with a special interest in collecting firearms, Bernhard Hasselwander, had his
gun seized from him by the police when he tried to register it as a restricted
weapon. He too was subjected to s. 102 forfeiture proceedings. Before the
Supreme Court of Canada could rule on the legality of his gun which was worth
approximately $1600 the police inadvertently destroyed it. In fact they
destroyed it even before the Court of Appeal for Ontario could rule on its
legality. That Ontario Court ruled the gun was not a prohibited weapon but said:

The appellant [Hasselwander] asks for an order directing payment of
the value of the weapon, which was destroyed after seizure. I know of no
authority to make such an order but would urge the Attorney General that
it seems fair to do so.

9 The Supreme Court of Canada ruled the gun to be a prohibited weapon.
Although that Court obviously would have known the police destroyed Mr.
Hasselwander's gun before legal proceedings concerning it were complete, the
Supreme Court of Canada in judgment said nothing critical of that police action;
nor did that Court by way of an order or suggestion say Mr. Hasselwander ought
to at least receive some compensation for the fact his gun was destroyed before
all legal proceedings concerning it were ended. See: R. v. Hasselwander (1993),
81 C.C.C. (3d) 471 (S.C.C.) sometimes referred to hereafter as the "Hasselwander
case" or "Hasselwander". See also the Hasselwander "Case on Appeal transcript
to the Supreme Court of Canada" pp. 1, 61, 81 and 107. The transcript is
hereafter called the "Hasselwander transcript".

(9) On January 18, 1992 Mr. Rogan turned over to the Constable just the
receiver of his Sten gun which receiver is now Exhibit 1 in the hearing.
(10) On January 20, 1992 the Constable phoned Mr. Rogan and said the
laboratory didn't need the rest of the gun to see if the gun had been properly
converted to fire in semi-automatic fashion only.
(11) On January 22, 1992 thinking he would not get his receiver back Mr.
Rogan sold the rest of the Sten gun's parts.
(12) Some days later the Constable contacted Mr. Rogan saying the
laboratory now wanted the rest of the parts for the Sten gun.
(13) Mr. Rogan never did get back his Sten gun parts from the person to
whom he sold them.
(14) Mr. Voth from the police laboratory eventually used other Sten gun
parts from the Edmonton and Vancouver police laboratories to make up a real
functioning gun which incorporated Mr. Rogan's Sten receiver as one of its
parts.
(15) The receiver, Exhibit 1, is a hollowed out piece of metal
approximately 12" long. The major portion of it looks like a pipe about 1" to 2"
in diameter.
(16) Exhibit 1 has no moving parts and by itself has no immediate ability
to fire live rounds of ammunition in any fashion. By itself it can no more
function as a real gun than a hammer or baseball bat can function as a gun.
(17) Exhibit 1, when assembled with a number of Sten gun parts including a
part called a "disconnector" will fire either in fully automatic fashion or in
semi-automatic fashion depending on the exact shape of the disconnector used.
(18) Without a disconnector the assembled gun would not fire in either
automatic or semi-automatic fashion for its trigger mechanism would not
function.
(19) Disconnectors that can fit within Exhibit 1, are "L"-shaped metal
pieces approximately 1116 of an inch thick and four and one-half inches long:
(20) Persons with a gunsmith's understanding of how all the parts of a
Sten gun function could over a period of hours dissemble a Sten gun made up with
Exhibit 1, reshape a "semi-automatic disconnector" into a "fully automatic
disconnector" and then reassemble all the parts into a functioning gun which
then would have the ability to fire in fully automatic fashion.
(21) Exhibit 1, being a receiver for a Sten Mark V gun, could also be made
to function as part of a fully automatic firearm if it lacked welding which at
present prevents its "selector button" from moving to a position that would
enable a fully assembled gun incorporating it to fire in a fully automatic
manner.
(22) Exhibit 1's selector button welding is substantial. Tampering with
that weld would damage the receiver to a point where its ability to function as
a Sten gun receiver would be lost.
(23) Obtaining any parts for a Sten gun would be difficult if one had no
parts for such a gun.
(24) Sten gun parts are not available in hardware stores or in common
every day gun shops.
(25) Such parts are available commercially but are uncommon.
(26) An average person having no special knowledge of firearms would have
to do much searching to obtain Sten gun parts including disconnector bars
suitable for use in Sten gun receivers.
(27) Virtually any firearm can be made to fire in fully automatic fashion
by skilled, knowledgeable persons who possess the desire, time and tools needed
to cut, shape, drill, and modify metal objects. By like means virtually any
firearm receiver can be incorporated with other gun parts into a real gun
capable of firing in fully automatic fashion.
(28) Just as some criminals with some understanding of firearms and
hacksaws easily convert sporting rifles and sporting shotguns into handguns,
persons possessing the desire and technical knowledge about how firearms
function can easily modify some common sporting rifles, sporting shotguns and
handguns to fire in fully automatic fashion.
(29) Above-mentioned facts 27 and 28 are known by the R.C.M.P. as a police
force and are known by other officials who administer Canada's gun laws.
(30) Unless one had the other Sten gun parts needed to make Exhibit 1 into
a real functioning gun it would be difficult and very time consuming to make
that receiver into any kind of real gun capable of firing gun ammunition in any
fashion.
(31) Lacking other Sten gun parts, to hand-make Exhibit 1 into a real
functioning gun of any kind one would need all of:
(a)a strong desire to do so;
(b)a technical knowledge of firearms' mechanisms much greater than that
needed to operate a factory-made gun or to take apart and re-assemble a
factory-made gun';
(c)metal working tools of various types;
(d)gunsmithing skills; and
(e)hours - if not days - of time to work on the task.


10 The evidence in this hearing fails to establish to a balance of
probabilities the following:

(1)That Exhibit 1, the receiver of the Sten gun purchased by the
Respondent and handled by R.C.M.P. Constable on October 19, 1991 did not
have its selector button solidly welded in place as part of the steps
taken at the time the receiver was being manufactured and before that
receiver was ever incorporated into a real functioning gun.
(2)That the Respondent's gun ever had the immediate ability to fire in
fully automatic fashion after it left its place of manufacture.
(3)That those who manufactured Mr. Rogan's specific gun ever intended it
to be capable of firing automatically.
(4)That Mr. Rogan, himself, ever intended to modify or attempted to modify
the gun to make it fire in fully automatic fashion.

11 The hearing's evidence fails to establish to any level of proof Mr.
Rogan is other than he appears to be - that is an intelligent, sane,
responsible, honest, middle-aged rural dweller who made a substantial and
sincere effort to comply with Canada's gun laws while purchasing the Sten gun
which led to this hearing.

The Law

12 What is the legal result when Canadian firearm legislation is applied
to those facts? In this present analysis the words "firearm" and "gun" are used
interchangeably as are the words "frame" and "receiver'. When the phrase "firing
automatically" and other similar phrases are used what is meant is "firing
projectiles in rapid succession during one pressure of the trigger". When the
phrase "fire non-automatically" and other similar phrases are used what is meant
is "all methods of fire other than firing automatically including semi-automatic
fire". When the term "machine gun" is used it refers to automatically firing
guns. Several judicial decisions must be taken into account in determining the
legal result of applying Canada's gun legislation to the facts established by
the evidence called in the hearing.

13 Before examining previous judicial decisions the fundamental legal
nature of two key definitions in the Code will be assessed. Those definitions
embrace both that which is real (i.e. truly possessing the essence of what it is
called) and that which is fiction (i.e. an intentional fabrication, a convenient
assumption that overlooks known facts in order to achieve an immediate goal).

14 Parliament has legislatively defined the word "firearm". In s. 84(1)
of the Code's English language version that definition, divided into its basic
components and read literally is:

1.any barrelled weapon from which any shot, bullet or other projectile can
be discharged and that is capable of causing serious bodily injury or
death to a person,
2.any frame or receiver of such a barrelled weapon
3.anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm.

15 The definition is externally convoluted with the legislative
definition of weapon. It employs the word "weapon" while the definition of that
latter term employs the word "firearm". Something in the nature of a circular
legal puzzle flows from that convolution. To know the Code's total definition of
"firearm" one must first know the Code's total definition of "weapon" but to
know that one must first know the Code's total definition of "firearm".

16 The first part of the definition of "firearm" is realistic in nature
despite the external convolution just described. It incorporates the factual
essence of firearms designed specifically for military use. According to the
Supreme Court of Canada it incorporates the legal essence of all firearms. See
R. v. Felawka (1993), 85 C.C.C. (3d) 248 (S.C.C.).

17 The second part of the definition is not realistic. Even apart from
any problems caused by definitional convolution it does not correlate with
reality. It is a legal fiction and one time removed from reality. A firearm
frame is no more a firearm in reality than a car frame is a car. Just as few
people are likely to think of a car frame as being a car; few are likely to
think of a gun frame as being a gun.

18 The third part of the definition, due to internal convolution, creates
an even bigger legal fiction than the second part does. It is twice removed from
reality. The s. 84(1) definition of "firearm" in its third part reads "anything
that can be adapted for use as a firearm". In effect the definition uses itself
to help define itself. As a matter of logic that internal convolution results in
the word "firearm" as used in the third part of the definition obtaining its
meaning through the words stated in the first and second part of the definition.
Logically in the third part of the definition the word "firearm" is merely a
short form substitute for all those words contained in the first and second part
of the definition. Read literally the third basic part of the Code's definition
of "firearm" makes not only anything that can be adapted for use as a real gun -
a firearm: it makes anything that can be adapted for use as a gun frame - a
firearm. Such an extended definition for a gun is very "unreal" or fictitious.
It is tantamount to saying not only are things that can be adapted for use as
cars - cars, things that can be adapted for use as car frames, such as the metal
beams needed to construct them, are cars too. Just as few people are likely to
think of metal beams as being cars, few people are likely to think of all those
things that can be adopted for use as gun frames as being guns.

19 As just illustrated when the fictitious portions of Parliament's
Criminal Code definition for "firearm" are accepted for what they say a very
wide legal net is cast - a net as likely to ensnare the innocent as it is likely
to protect them. Taken literally and to their grammatical and semantic limits
those fictitious portions would force Canadians to obtain a firearms acquisition
certificate (FAC) before they acquired any metal pipe, such as household gas
pipe, that could be adapted for use as a gun frame, which frame in turn could be
adapted for use as a gun by being incorporated into a real functioning gun.

20 The Code's s. 84(1) definition of "prohibited weapon" contains several
paragraphs. This analysis deals only with its paragraph (c) which itself
contains several basic parts and which is subject to major exceptions of a very
detailed nature. Those exceptions are noted but not analyzed. They are found in
s. 84(1) as paragraphs (c) and (c.1) within the definition of "restricted
weapon" and in s. 84(2).

21 The paragraph (c) portion of the Code's "prohibited weapon" definition
has six major components. Paragraph (c) expressed in basic form states all of
the following are prohibited weapons:

1.any firearm capable of firing automatically and not altered to fire in
non-automatic fashion.
2.any firearm capable of firing automatically but altered to fire
non-automatically.
3.any firearm assembled with the capacity of firing automatically and not
altered to fire non-automatically.
4.any firearm assembled with the capacity of firing automatically but
altered to fire non-automatically.
5.any firearm designed and manufactured with the capacity of firing
automatically and not altered to fire non-automatically.
6.any firearm designed and manufactured with the capacity of firing
automatically but altered to fire non-automatically.

22 On the surface and viewed generally parts 1, 3 and 5 seem realistic
while parts 2, 4 and 6 seem fundamentally fictitious. In a first reading parts
1, 3 and 5 appear to describe things which the lay public understand to be
machine guns even without having to refer to the Code. In contrast parts 2, 4
and 6 all seem to "talk out of both sides of their mouth". They appear to
describe things the lay public would say were once machine guns but would say
are no longer machine guns. Parts 2, 4 and 6 seem in their fundamental legal
nature equivalent to legislation that would provide: a car, a car frame, and
metal beams needed to make car frames are all high speed cars if they once were
high speed cars or once were some component of a high speed car.

23 To understand the fundamental legal nature of paragraph (c) one must
remember its six basic parts, in using the word "firearm", begin by inheriting
the legal fictions bound up in that word. How realistic or fictional those six
parts are after their point of commencement depends on what paragraph (c)'s
phrases and word "is capable of", "the capacity of" and "altered" mean. The Code
provides no definition.

24 If the two "capacity phrases" are interpreted broadly and the word
"altered" is interpreted narrowly, the Code's definition of "prohibited weapon"
becomes very unrealistic and fictitious indeed. Using that interpretive approach
pieces of plumbing pipe which could be made into a frame or receiver which in
turn could become one piece in a functioning gun which could be made into an
automatically firing gun would be prohibited weapons under paragraph (c) unless
altered by complete destruction in some fashion.

25 In contrast if the two "capacity phrases" are interpreted very
narrowly and the word "altered" is interpreted very broadly, paragraph (c) is
more realistic and less fictional in its fundamental legal nature. The
ramifications of this latter approach are several:

1.any legal need to pretend plumbing pipes and indeed any other objects
not being in reality gun parts, are firearms capable of automatic fire and
to neat them as such is avoided.
2.any legal need to pretend frames and receivers of and by themselves are
firearms capable of automatic fire and to treat them as such is avoided.
3.any legal need to treat as a prohibited weapon under paragraph (c) any
gun manufactured to fire in non-automatic fashion only and not changed to
fire automatically by its possessors is avoided.
4.The legal need to treat as prohibited weapons some guns originally
manufactured to fire automatically but truly and substantially changed to
fire only in non-automatic fashion is avoided.
5.Any legal need to neat as a prohibited weapon any gun manufactured to
fire in non-automatic fashion only but which through breakage, wear or
other accidental means took on the ability to fire automatically would be
avoided so long as its possessor did not attempt to use it in that fashion
and either got the gun repaired to its original non-automatic condition,
dismantled it, or destroyed it.
6.An opportunity would be created for some persons to legally possess some
guns that for all practical purposes would be machine guns (and would be
regarded as such by the lay public) despite Parliament's desire that they
not do so. That legal opportunity of course would not accrue to those
persons unable for any reason to obtain a firearms acquisition certificate
for they would still need that document to legally acquire any firearm not
exempted from the FAC provisions.
7.The legal ability and need to treat as a prohibited weapon any firearm
meant by its possessor to be a machine gun and having the immediate
ability to fire in automatic fashion would be maintained subject to s.
84(2)(d) and other statutory exceptions.


26 It should be apparent from this analysis of the Code definitions
mentioned that if private citizens are to avoid being unjustifiably convicted of
crime when they intend no crime some control must be placed on Parliament's "gun
control" legislation. Indeed it seems if the Canadian Charter of Rights and
Freedoms is to be complied with some control and restriction must be placed by
the judiciary on Parliament's legal ability and present inclination to
fictionalize or to pretend things when enacting gun control laws.

27 Among other things the Charter provides:
s.1 The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and
freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed
by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.
s.7 Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and
the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the
principles of fundamental justice.
s.8 Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or
seizure.
s.11 Any person charged with an offence has the right
(d)to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair
and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal.
s.12 Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel and
unusual treatment or punishment.


28 Does all of Canada's present gun legislation comply fully with the
Charter, especially if with its fictions it is given the broad interpretation
those strongly opposed to any possession of guns by private citizens might want?

29 For example concerning s. 7 of the Charter can it be said that
depriving responsible persons of their lawfully acquired guns without
compensation when they have committed no crime does not in practical effect
cause insecurity of the person? How secure in person can any citizen be living
under a law of that type? In a very fundamental way doesn't the security of each
person ultimately depend on the security of their property. To express the idea
in lay terms: man may not be able to live by food alone but at least it
prevents starvation. Can it be said gun storage regulations so stringent they
remove the practical ability of home-owners to defend themselves in their own
homes with firearms in circumstances of immediate danger to life do not
interfere with the security of person of numerous law-abiding home-owners?

30 With reference to s. 8 of the Charter can it be said for example a law
which allows confiscation of lawfully acquired firearms from responsible
citizens without compensation is a reasonable law? Isn't it now trite Charter
law that for a seizure to be reasonable the law upon which it is based must be
reasonable? One pauses to wonder how the public and the judiciary would react if
Parliament passed a law requiring all persons possessed of high speed cars to
surrender those vehicles to the Government without compensation or face criminal
prosecution.

31 Concerning s. 11 of the Charter how fair are those firearms provisions
that are so complicated the Nation's top jurists struggle to understand them -
especially when the legislation is backed by penal sanctions? If unreasonable
search law can prevent a search based upon it from being reasonable for purposes
of the Charter, can an unfair law prevent a trial based on it from being fair
within meaning of s. 11 in the Charter?

32 Looking at s. 12 of the Charter can it not be said that a law which
forces responsible citizens to surrender up their lawfully acquired and lawfully
used firearms without compensation is a law which subjects them to cruel and
unusual treatment or punishment? Isn't that exactly what those regulatory Orders
which converted a large number of previously non-restricted and non-prohibited
guns directly into the "prohibited weapon" category have done? See Prohibited
Weapons Order, No. 11 SOR/92-465. It is perhaps worth noting those who have the
legal power to make such Orders have even gone so far as to make a certain type
of stock for guns itself a "prohibited weapon". The stock is one called a "bull
pup". See Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 9 SOR/92-463. Because of that Order
those who previously lawfully owned such stocks suddenly had to destroy or
surrender them to Government or face the peril of criminal prosecution. What
lawful justification can exist for not at least compensating them in such cases?

33 If some of Canada's current gun laws do interfere with the rights and
freedoms guaranteed in the Charter are those portions saved by s. 1? Do they
satisfy the judicial tests stated in R. v. Oakes (1986), 24 C.C.C. (3d) 321
(S.C.C.)?

34 It is both understandable and laudable Parliament would want to
protect the Canadian citizenry from gun misuse and gun crime but that public
protection rationale can only take Parliament so far. In the democracy that is
Canada, it is both legally and politically important Parliament be fair and
reasonable with all those individuals who comprise Canada's population. The
Charter makes it legally important and those periodic events called federal
elections make it politically important.

35 As said decades ago in another context in Hamilton v. Long (1903), 2
I.R. 407 (K.B.) per Gibson, J. at 416:

"Hard cases make bad law, and fiction must stop somewhere."

36 From modern day judgments previous to this judgment it appears
Canadian judges generally recognize legal fiction must stop somewhere. They
seem to recognize Parliament's pretending in the matter of gun legislation must
be somewhat controlled by the judiciary if fairness and reason are to be
maintained in such legislation. Forced to work with legislation often very
difficult to comprehend because of its detailed and convoluted form, they
generally have done a reasonable job in bringing common sense to bear on
Parliament's fictions and in providing fair reasonable resolutions in specific
disputes.

37 I now turn to list and summarize several firearms decisions of some
relevance to the present dispute:

(1) R. v. Levson (1958), 26 W.W.R. (N.S.) 495 (B.C. Co. Ct.)

38 Levson had purchased what he thought was an unfireable revolver. He
was charged under the Code provisions of that time for unlawfully receiving
delivery of a revolver before it was registered in his name. At that time the
Code did not define "revolver" but did say a "firearm" meant "a pistol,
revolver, or a firearm that is capable of firing bullets in rapid succession
during one pressure of the trigger".

39 A police armourer said the object was a .455 cal. Webley revolver with
four parts missing, one part broken and one part non-functional due to rust. The
armourer went on to say even if the missing and non-functional parts of the
weapon were replaced, the action of the remainder of the working parts would be
so retarded because of paint and rust the revolver would fail to work properly.

40 Crown counsel argued the capacity reference in the Code's definition
had no relevance since the definition of "firearm" made a revolver a separate
and distinct article.

41 In that context the judge ruled the item was not a revolver. In doing
so he said whether the article could function as a revolver was an important
aspect of the matter and observed it was apparent from the armourer's report no
matter what was done to the article it could not function as a revolver.

(2) R. v. Cairns (1962), 40 W.W.R. (N.S.) 365 (B.C.C.A.)

42 Cairns was charged with having an unregistered firearm. The Code at
that time said a "firearm" means "a pistol, revolver, or a firearm that is
capable of firing bullets in rapid succession during one pressure of the
trigger". The .22 calibre revolver in dispute had all the attributes of a
revolver except it was not in firing condition because the hammer nose
underneath the firing pin was missing. That condition could have been rectified
either by installing a new hammer or by repairing the one it had. Repairs
necessary to put the weapon back into operating condition could have been made
by an experienced person in 15 to 20 minutes.

43 The British Columbia Court of Appeal did not say the item was a
revolver because the "firearm" definition specifically listed revolvers. Instead
the court compared the disputed item to a motor vehicle with one wheel missing
and ruled the .22 had not lost its character of being a revolver merely because
a readily replaceable part was missing.

(3) R. v. Brouillard (1980), 59 C.C.C. (2d) 81 (Que. C.A.)

44 Brouillard was charged under the Code with using a firearm while
committing the indictable offence of robbery. He had used a .22 calibre Crosman
pellet revolver which at the time he committed the robbery had a CO2 gas
cartridge in it but had no pellets in the chamber. At the time the Code defined
"firearm" as it does now in s. 84(1) except now the word "projectile" is used
where back then the word "missile" was used.

45 The deciding judgment held the pellet gun to have been a firearm at
the time of the robbery saying at p. 82 of the above-noted report:

The question then is, what is a firearm? The answer is given by the
definition in s. 82(1). The full text of this definition is given, in
both languages, in my colleague's opinion.
I particularly note that "firearm" is defined as including "any frame or
receiver of such a barrelled weapon and anything that can be adapted for
use as a firearm". It would seem that Parliament intended that the
word should have a wide interpretation, and, with all respect for the
contrary opinion, I cannot accept that a weapon ceases to be a firearm
merely because it is unloaded. I find it illogical to suppose that it was
the intention of Parliament in enacting s. 83(1) to cover something that
is not actually a firearm, if it can be adapted for use as such, and yet
not to cover an unloaded pistol that merely requires loading to make it a
deadly weapon.

The s. 82(1) referred in the quote is now s. 84(1) and s. 83(1) referred to is
now s. 85(1).

46 The dissenting judgment stated Brouillard's gun was not a firearm at
the time of the robbery in that the legislative texts applicable to the case
were not unambiguous and therefore any serious doubt should benefit Brouillard.

(4) R. v. Haines (1981), 86 A.P.R. 428 (N.S.S.C. App. Div.)

47 Haines, a part-time gun dealer, stocked guns and gun parts. In
December, 1978 police seized from him a large quantity of guns and gun parts. He
was subjected to charges, one being possession of prohibited weapons, including
a Sten submachine gun, contrary to what is now s. 90(1)(a) of the Code.

48 One gun expert, Staff Sergeant Lapiere, stated this concerning the
Sten which he said he had assembled from parts seized from Haines:

He said that this type of submachine gun is made out of parts and
that there were approximately six different boxes of parts which had been
seized. The principal parts were the magazine housing, which contained
the serial number, the breech block, the spring and the back plate, the
magazine, the stock and the barrel. It took him about fifteen minutes to
find the different parts from the different boxes and place them together.
The submachine gun was then fully operable. It was a weapon which was
designed for quick assembly.

49 Another gun expert, Mr. Allen, gave evidence described as follows:

Mr. Allan explained in his evidence that the Sten gun was a
military weapon used by the services during the war and that all members
of the service who carried guns were expected to be able to dismantle and
assemble this type of gun. He said that once you have taken one of the
weapons apart you could take a thousand apart, and one of the tests during
the war was to assemble these guns in the dark. All parts were
interchangeable so that the weapon could be cannibalized.

The Haines judgment went on to say:

Mr. Allen, who is also a gun dealer, gave evidence to the effect
that very often guns were shipped to customers as parts in separate
packages so that they would not be classified as weapons during the
transfer. It was intended that they be reassembled upon receipt where they
could be legally possessed. He indicated that there were many types of
kits with instructions for assembly of the guns that were used as well.

All three quotes appear at p. 435 of the Haines case.

50 In December of 1977 Haines had taken his large gun collection to
corporal House, the R.C.M.P. officer in charge of the Lunenburg Detachment, for
registration purposes. The Haines decision at p. 436 says this is what happened:

In the course of having these weapons registered, the appellant said
that he asked Corporal House whether he would register the magazine
housing of a Sten gun. The Corporal said that he refused to register the
housing as it would not by itself constitute a firearm. He also admits
that when it was suggested that other parts of automatic weapons by
themselves be registered that he refused on the same basis. He did say,
however, that if all of the parts of a prohibited weapon had been
presented to him in broken down form he would have considered registering
them as a complete weapon.

51 In the above context the three appellate judges upheld an earlier
ruling that Haines had possessed prohibited weapons. Through Hart, J.A. they
expressed the opinion that the determination of whether or not a particular
thing is a prohibited weapon "is to be determined by applying the facts to the
Code's definition of "firearm". At pp. 431 and 432 in the reported decision they
said the Criminal Code defines "firearm" as:

... any barrelled weapon from which any shot, bullet or other
missile can be discharged and that is capable of causing serious bodily
injury or death to a person, and includes any frame or receiver of such a
barrelled weapon and anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm;

At pp. 436 and 437 they stated:

If a firearm is partially or completely dismantled but can be
rendered "capable of firing bullets" by the simple reassembly of its parts
or the making of some minor alterations to its works, I would think it
could be found as a fact that it was a prohibited weapon. If, on the
other hand, it was in such a condition that it could not be made
inoperable because of lack of all parts or because of physical changes
made to its structure which would be difficult to repair that it may cease
to be in fact a "weapon". There would have to be at the same time and
place the necessary ingredients for an operable firearm together with
the ability to place it in an operable form.
It would seem to me that all these elements were present at the
appellant's residence. The parts were all there to create the operable
prohibited weapons, and the appellant as a dealer in guns and a person
with a special interest in them would, in my opinion, be expected to be
able to render them operable, particularly, in the case of the Sten guns
which merely required the placing together of approximately six standard
parts. (See R. v. Cairns (1962) 40 W.W.R. (N.S.) 365, British Columbia
Court of Appeal)
I do not think it can be said that the R.C.M.P. corporal who refused
to grant registration to the housings of the Sten guns themselves in any
way misled the appellant into believing that parts of prohibited weapons
kept separately could not render the possessor guilty of possession of the
weapons themselves. According to Mr. Allen it was apparently common
practice in the trade to break down weapons for various purposes with the
knowledge that they would eventually be reassembled as operable weapons.
In my opinion it cannot be said that the appellant would not have had this
type of general knowledge and would not have had sufficient mens rea to
justify his conviction for the offence as charged.

52 The Haines judgment doesn't say Corporal House was wrong in taking the
position he did concerning the weapons registration requests of Haines. To the
contrary, the judgment seems to support the position Corporal House took. I
refer back to the last stated quotation from the Haines judgment. It states if a
firearm were in such a condition that it could not be made operable because of
physical changes made to its structure which would be difficult to repair that
it may cease to be in fact a "weapon". It further states in effect that there
would have to be at the same time and place the necessary ingredients for an
operable firearm together with the ability to place it in operable form for it
even to be a "weapon". (Emphasis mine)
 
53 This last mentioned jurisprudence in the Haines decision has been
approved of by the Supreme Court of Canada in the next two decisions discussed
in more detail later in this judgment.

54 In R. v. Covin and Covin (1983), 8 C.C.C. (3d) 240 (S.C.C.) in context
of charges concerning using a firearm while committing an indictable offence,
the Supreme court of Canada dismissed Crown appeals saying at p. 244:

In the present appeals, there is no evidence that there were at the
time and place of the offence or during the flight thereafter, to use the
words of Hart, J.A in R. v. Haines (1981), 45 N.S.R. (2d) 428 at p. 436,".
. .the necessary ingredients for an operable firearm together with the
ability to place it in operable form".

55 In the more recent Hasselwander case the legal status of a functioning
Mini-Uzi submachine gun was in issue in forfeiture proceedings under s. 102 of
the Code. The Supreme court of Canada found Hasselwander's specific gun to have
been a "prohibited weapon" within meaning of the Code. In providing the majority
judgment Cory, J. at p. 481 said:

The reasoning in other cases supports the position that I have
taken. Thus, I am in agreement with the reasons of Hart, J.A. in R. v.
Haines (1981), 45 N.S.R. (2d) 428 at p. 436, 6 W.C.B. 146, where he stated:

The offences charged here against the appellant were the possession
of prohibited weapons. In my opinion the determination of whether or not
a particular thing is a "prohibited weapon" is to be determined by
applying the facts to the definition contained in s. 82 [now s. 84] of the
Criminal Code. If a firearm is partially or completely dismantled but can
be rendered "capable of firing bullets" by the simple reassembly of its
parts or the making of some minor alterations to is works, I would think
it could be found as a fact that it was a prohibited weapon. If, on the
other hand, it was in such a condition that it could not be made operable
because of lack of all parts or because of physical changes made to its
structure which would be difficult to repair that it may cease to be in
fact a "weapon". There would have to be at the same time and place the
necessary ingredients for an operable firearm together with the ability to
place it in operable form.

(5)R. v. Dufour (1982), 3 C.C.C. (3d) 14 (N.S.S.C. App. Div.)

56 Dufour was charged under what is now s. 87 of the Code with possessing
a weapon, a .22 rifle, for a purpose dangerous to the public peace. What Dufour
possessed when he went out looking for trouble, he described in the trial's
evidence as a stock from a .22 rifle with a pipe about two feet long on it. He
described it as having no firing mechanism and no trigger mechanism. Another
person said he didn't think it had a bolt in it.

57 The trial's evidence didn't reveal whether the item was operable or
could have been put in an operable state by the application of any amount of
human ingenuity.

58 The Court quashed Dufour's conviction saying, among other things, that
if the Crown is to rely on the Code's definition of "firearm" the Crown at least
must show the object is capable of being put in an operable state. The court
also said the Crown doesn't have to show the object is in an immediate state of
operation.

(6) R. v. Covin and Covin (1983), 8 C.C.C. (3d) 240 (S.C.C.)

59 The Covins had been charged with using a firearm while committing an
indictable offence under what is now s. 85 of the Code. In committing robbery of
a credit union the Covins used a CO2 pistol which was at the time of the robbery
in a damaged and incomplete condition. A police firearms expert said there were
14 parts of the gun missing or damaged, and seven of those missing parts were
essential to its operation. The expert further said an experienced person could
replace the missing parts in 10 to 15 minutes. At the time of Covin, the Code's
relevant definition of firearm was as is now contained in s. 84(1) except back
then it used the word "missile" instead of the word "projectile".

60 In the above context the Supreme court of Canada, in effect, said the
Crown had failed to prove Covin's air pistol was a firearm and then upheld an
earlier ruling which had acquitted the covins.

61 In so ruling the Supreme Court did three things of special
significance:

1.As a necessary part of the Covin judgment it applied certain reasoning
from the Haines decision as earlier detailed herein under this present
judgment's summarization of the Haines case.
2.It said the meaning of the word "firearm" as stated in what is now s.
84(1) of the Code is dependent in part upon what particular section of the
Code the word is used in.
3.Assisted by the French language version of the Code, it held that frames
and receivers are not necessarily always firearms even though the English
version of the firearm definition when read literally appears to make
frames and receivers firearms for legal purposes irrespective of their
adaptability for use as firearms.

62 The latter two features of the Covin decision have been noted in at
least one academic text. See Der & Kirkpatrick: Firearms and Weapons (Calgary:
Carswell 1989) pp. 1 and 2.

63 Having the meaning of "firearm" depend in part on what specific
section of the Code it relates to makes the Code's complicated definition of
"firearm" even more complicated. With such an approach it would appear
unrealistic to expect the lay public to understand fully what "firearm" means
for the purpose of each Code section using it. The approach does have one
advantage however. It gives trial judges some flexibility in applying
Parliament's very broad and inherently fictitious definition of "firearm". It
enables judges to apply common sense to the unique facts each dispute provides
and to render justice in circumstances where a strict application of
Parliament's definition would result in unreasonableness, unnecessary harshness
and great injustice.

64 In similar vein ruling that frames and receivers are not necessarily
always firearms enables trial judges to control Parliament's pretending those
things are always firearms and enables them to resolve disputes over such gun
parts in a reasonable and just manner.

65 Through its decision in Covin, the Supreme court of Canada obviously
gave trial judges substantial legal power to apply common sense and to thereby
control Parliament's pretending anything that can be adapted for use as a
firearm is a firearm. To refer back to the contrived dialogue about a car frame
near the beginning of this judgment: Covin means trial judges don't always have
to find that car frames are cars. Even less do they have to accept that metal
beams needed to make cars or car frames, are cars.

(7)R. v. Global Armaments Ltd. (1988), 93 A.R. 77 (Alta. Prov. Ct.),
affirmed (1990), 105 A.R. 260 (Alta. C.A.)

66 The Crown sought an order of forfeiture under what is now s. 102 of
the Code for several objects saying they were prohibited weapons. Some of the
objects were Uzi submachine guns; others were Sten submachine guns.

67 The evidence revealed efforts had been made to restrict the guns to
non-automatic fire only. Experts testified the methods used on those particular
guns to restrict them to non-automatic fire only were not very effective. They
said all of those guns could have been very easily reconverted to fire
automatically. The evidence showed the reversal back to fully automatic fire was
a relatively easily accomplished task by either experts or non-experts. The guns
in dispute had been designed to be fired in the fully automatic mode.

68 In that context the guns were ruled prohibited weapons. Speaking about
the particular guns that were in issue in the case, the Provincial court Judge
stated unless modification can be totally effective and not subject to reversal,
that is to say permanent, weapons designed to fire in automatic fashion can
never lose that capacity.

(8) R. v. Hamel (1991), 118 A.R. 283 (Alta. Prov. Ct.)

69 The case involved a forfeiture hearing under s. 102 of the Code. The
Crown claimed two gun frames seized from Hamel's residence were prohibited
weapons within meaning of clause (c) of the "prohibited weapon" definition in s.
84(1) of the Code as that definition read in 1991. One frame was of an Uzi
submachine gun; the other frame was of a Sten Mark II submachine gun.

70 Concerning the Uzi frame the hearing's evidence indicated two types of
frames were manufactured for Uzi submachine guns. One was a commercial market
version which had a metal lug welded on it preventing it from firing in
automatic fashion when the frame was assembled into a functioning gun. The other
version, once assembled with all the other parts needed to make a functioning
gun, would fire in automatic fashion selectively.

71 The experts called in the hearing said there was a good availability
of parts for the Uzi's commercial version. The defence expert said parts for the
military version were more difficult to obtain and that he didn't know anywhere
in Canada where they could be legally purchased.

72 In that context Hamel's Uzi frame being the military version was held
to be the prohibited weapon.

73 Concerning the Sten frame the evidence revealed its selector lever was
welded in the semi-automatic position with a strong weld that went more than
halfway around the circumference of the push bottom, internally, on each side of
the frame. A skilled gunsmith could grind out the weld in about an hour or so.
Such grinding could allow the frame to be assembled with other parts to fire
automatically but the grinding could also cause damage or destruction to the
frame so that any gun incorporating it would be inoperable or unreliable.
Untampered with Hamel's Sten frame when assembled into a functioning gun would
fire in the semi-automatic mode but could not fire automatically.

74 Hamel's Sten frame was held not to be a prohibited weapon. Several
things are significant about the case:

1.It involved an admission that both frames were firearms as defined in
s. 84(1) of the case.
2.It recognized a frame of and by itself is inoperable and lacks a present
ability to fire;
3.It rules the Crown must prove that an inoperable firearm is capable of
becoming operable in order for it to be considered a "firearm".
4.It recognized virtually any firearm can be converted to fire
automatically.
5.Hamel submitted that to broaden the definition of "is capable of" in the
"prohibited weapon" definition to include "frames" which can be converted
to automatic firing guns would be to open the door to the likelihood that
every single shot or semi-automatic weapon in the country could become a
prohibited weapon because they too can be converted to fire automatically.
The Hamel ruling responded by observing that single shot weapons and
semi-automatic weapons were intended, designed, and manufactured to be
what they are and by going on to state there must always be an element of
reasonableness involved in issues of this sort.
6.At p. 289 in the reported decision, jurisprudence from a number of
earlier cases is condensed as follows:

In summary then, I am required to look to the intention of
Parliament in enacting the section concerned. That "Intention" regarding
"prohibited weapons" has been determined to be to "suppress the possession
... of firearms which constitute a particular danger to the public ...".
Because of the extended definition of "firearm", a "frame" is a device
which has the potential of becoming a firearm through adaptation and, if
such a "frame" meets the test of adaptability so as to be capable of
firing automatically, it will be considered to be a "prohibited weapon".
Since possession is a continuing offence, then the amount of the
adaptation required, and the time needed therefore, and the ability of the
accused, himself, to effect such adaptation, are of less importance, for
the purpose of possession, than they are for a charge of using a firearm
in the commission of an offence. The onus is on the Crown to prove that
such a "frame" is capable of becoming an operable firearm. If, by
adaptation, such a "frame" is proven to be capable of firing
automatically, then it is a "prohibited weapon", and it remains a
"prohibited weapon", so long as it retains the capability to fire
automatically.

7.The Hamel decision must now be viewed in light of the jurisprudence from
the Supreme Court of Canada in Hasselwander. In that context quaere
whether today Hamel's military version of the Mini-Uzi frame should be
ruled a prohibited weapon or even a firearm if it is difficult to obtain
parts to make it into a functioning Mini-Uzi.


(9) R. v. Hasselwander (1993), 81 C.C.C. (3d) 471 (S.C.C.)

75 Hasselwander, a gun collector, applied to register a Mini-Uzi
submachine gun as a restricted weapon. The firearms registrar applied to a
Provincial Court Judge to have the gun forfeited as a prohibited weapon within
meaning of paragraph (c) in the Code's s. 84(1) definition of "prohibited
weapon".

76 Ten members of the judiciary considered the legal character of
Hasselwander's specific gun which was a real fully functional Mini-Uzi gun, not
a mere frame for a Mini-Uzi gun as was the case in Hamel. A Provincial Court
Judge and a District Court Judge concluded it was a prohibited weapon. Three
members of the Court of Appeal for Ontario and five members of the Supreme Court
of Canada assessed the gun's legal status. From within those latter two courts,
in effect, four members said it was a prohibited weapon and four said it wasn't.
In the Supreme Court of Canada the judicial opinion was a 3 to 2 division in
favour of ruling the gun to be a prohibited weapon and it was therefore held to
be such.

77 As alluded to at pp. 474 and 475 of the Hasselwander case and
described in greater detail at pp. 83, 84, 88 and 89 of the Hasselwander
transcript that semi-automatic Mini-Uzi could have been converted to fire in
fully automatic fashion in three different ways.

78 One way would have been to remove a spot-welded restraining plate from
within the gun - a ten minute job for anyone with reasonable knowledge of the
gun.

79 A second and more significant way would have been to simply remove one
pin from the gun to thereby remove the gun's entire trigger mechanism and then
install, as a substitute, a readily available fully automatic trigger assembly.

80 A third way would have been to simply remove one pin from the gun to
thereby remove the gun's entire trigger mechanism and then install, as a
substitute, a trigger mechanism from a fully automatic toy replica weapon the
sale of which was not controlled.

81 In context of those facts about Hasselwander's gun Cory, J. with La
Forest and Gonthier, JJ. concurring utilized what he described as the "purposive
approach" to determine the meaning of the phrase "capable of firing bullets in
rapid succession during one pressure of the trigger" as found in the Code's s.
84(1) definition of "prohibited weapon". At p. 479 he stated:

What then, should "capable" mean as it is used in the s. 84(1)
definition of prohibited weapon? It should not be restricted to the
narrow meaning of immediately capable. Such a definition would mean that
the simple removal of a part which could be replaced in seconds would take
the weapon outside the definition. This surely could not have been the
intention of Parliament. If it were, the danger from automatic weapons
would continue to exist just as strongly as it did before the prohibition
was enacted.

At p. 480 he went on to say:
In my view, it should mean "capable of conversion to an automatic
weapon in a relatively short period of time with relative ease".

At p. 483 he concluded his reasoning on the issue by saying:
Where a weapon can be quickly converted to automatic status, then that
weapon must fall within the definition of "prohibited weapon". To come to
any other conclusion would undermine the very purpose of the legislation.

In dissent Major, J. with Lamer, C.J.C. concurring stated at pp. 486 and 487:
A narrow interpretation of "capable" does not thwart the concern for
public protection. Those weapons that would have been classified as
prohibited under a broad interpretation of "capable" in para. (c), are
still highly controlled under the Code as "restricted weapons". An
applicant for a "restricted" weapons certificate must demonstrate to the
local registrar of firearms that the weapon's intended use falls within
narrow categories set out in s. 109(3). If Parliament wishes to prohibit
semi automatic firearms which are easily converted to fully automatic
firing it is open for Parliament to do so.
Section 84(1) also provides for the express classification of a
particular firearm, as evidenced in the Restricted Weapons Order,
SOR/92-467, as well as in the various prohibited weapons orders.
Classification has the obvious advantage of specificity and the
elimination of judicial interpretation.

82 Although three Supreme Court of Canada Justices said Hasselwander's
gun was a prohibited weapon and two said it wasn't, they do not appear to have
been very far apart philosophically on two matters. First, all five agreed the
policy behind Parliament's gun control legislation was to protect the public
from firearm misuse. The minority concluded a narrow definition of the word
"capable" would not defeat Parliament's concern for public protection. The
majority concluded a somewhat expanded definition of that word "capable" was
needed to serve Parliament's purpose. Second, all five Supreme Court of Canada
Justices, in effect, agreed the judiciary must control Parliament's present
tendency to fictionalize or to pretend things in gun control legislation -
although they didn't say so in those words. Ironically the majority stated that
need for judicial control in stronger terms than did the minority.

83 Major, J. speaking for the minority said at p. 487:

Any test based on capability extending to future alterations, which
may be beyond an accused's knowledge or skill, introduces an undesirable
level of uncertainty. All persons are presumed to know the law. That being
so, it is incumbent on Parliament to ensure clarity in drafting penal
statutes.

84 Cory, J. speaking for the majority said at p. 480:

... it is clear that "capable" does in fact include a potential for
conversion. It is then fair and reasonable to interpret the definition of
prohibited weapon as including a gun that has the potential to be readily
converted to a fully automatic weapon.
Yet, that potential aspect must be given some reasonable
restriction. It is the proper role of the court to define the meaning of
"capable" as it is used in the definition of "prohibited weapon" in s.
84(1).

That ruling by Cory, J. is reminiscent of a statement by Marshall, P.C.J. in the
Hamel case. There the learned Provincial Court Judge faced with the reality
virtually any firearm can be converted to fire automatically and the argument
that to give a broad definition to the phrase "is capable of" would necessarily
open the door to hold every single-shot or semiautomatic weapon is also a
"prohibited weapon" said a p. 293 of the case:

Single shot weapons and semi-automatic weapons were intended,
designed, and manufactured to be what they are.
Although theoretically virtually any firearm can be converted to fire
automatically, in practise, it would be difficult and unpractical, and, of
course, it would be illegal.
There must always be an element of reasonableness involved.
[Emphasis mine]

85 For an example of another Provincial Court Judge applying the element
of reasonableness but concerning the earlier equivalent of what is now paragraph
(b)(ii) in the Code's s. 84(1) definition of "restricted weapon" see R. v. Gauthier
(1978), 9 B.C.L.R. 81 (B.C. Prov. Ct.).

The Ruling

86 As alluded to at the beginning of this judgment the fundamental issue
to be determined in this hearing is whether the Respondent's Sten Mark V
receiver, Exhibit 1, should be forfeited as a prohibited weapon within meaning
of paragraph (c) in the Code's s. 84(1) definition of "prohibited weapon". The
issue is resolved by applying the Code's definition as elaborated upon in the
jurisprudence to the facts established through the hearing's evidence.

87 Having applied the law to the facts I find and rule as a matter of law
the Respondent's Sten Mark V receiver, is not a firearm within the meaning of
the definition of "firearm" in s. 84(1) of the Code. I therefore further find
and rule as a matter of law that Exhibit 1 is not a prohibited weapon within
meaning of paragraph (c) in the Code's definition of "prohibited weapon".

88 The Supreme Court of Canada in Felawka has ruled all firearms are
weapons as a matter of law. Felawka, however, does not over-rule expressly or
by necessary implication the Supreme Court of Canada's earlier decision in Covin
which clearly rules frames and receivers are not always firearms as a matter of
law despite what the English language version of the Code's "firearm" definition
appears to say. The facts established in this hearing prove Exhibit 1 does not
meet the "adaptability" test spoke of in Covin. Those facts also prove the
Respondent's Sten gun receiver does not meet the "capability" test in
Hasselwander. Covin and Hasselwander both approve of jurisprudence from the Hail
case to the effect that for there to exist a firearm there "would have to be at
the same time and place the necessary ingredients for an operable firearm
together with the ability to place it in operable form". See Covin at p. 244 and
Hasselwander at p. 481. The facts proven in this hearing do not meet the Haines
requirement just stated either.

89 In reaching the conclusions I have concerning the adaptability and
capability aspects of Mr. Rogan's receiver in the form it exists at the time of
this hearing I have been convinced by a combination of facts which are found
within, or are implicit from, the series of facts established through the
hearing's evidence and listed earlier herein as "the facts". In the present
context I regard it of particular legal significance that:

(1)Sten gun parts are generally difficult to obtain.
(2)An average person with no special knowledge of firearms would have to
do much searching to obtain Sten gun parts.
(3)Modifying a semiautomatic disconnector into a disconnector allowing a
Sten gun which incorporated Mr. Rogan's receiver to fire in machine gun
fashion and then assembling all the necessary Sten gun parts into a real
functioning gun would take time extending beyond a matter of mere minutes
and would require a knowledge of firearms beyond that needed to merely
operate an already assembled Sten gun.
(4)To hand build the Sten receiver into a real functioning gun of any type
would be a difficult and time consuming task for the average person who
possessed no other gun parts already compatible with Mr. Rogan's receiver.

90 In terms of the applicable jurisprudence I find it of great
significance that although Hasselwander involved a s. 102 hearing as does this
present case. and not a s. 85 type charge as Covin did, Hasselwander:

(1)Ruled that Parliament's use of the word "capable" must be given some
reasonable restriction.
(2)Ruled that "capable" should mean "capable of conversion to an automatic
weapon in a relatively short period of time with relative ease".
(3)Agreed with reasoning in Haines to the effect that for there to exist a
prohibited weapon in the nature of a prohibited firearm there would have
to be at the same time and place the necessary ingredients for an operable
firearm together with the ability to place it in operable form.

91 In seeking a return of his Sten receiver the Respondent has raised a
number of legal arguments including some relating to the Canadian Charter of
Rights and Freedoms and the Canadian Bill of Rights. Prima facie none of his
arguments appear frivolous. Since this court has ruled Exhibit 1 is not a
firearm in context of the hearing's evidence it is unnecessary that I comment
upon the Respondent's specific arguments. With one exception I find it
appropriate to refrain from commenting further herein upon them.

92 The Respondent has argued the phrase "that is capable of" within the
Code's definition of a prohibited weapon is hopelessly vague; that Hasselwander
merely brought more confusion to it; and that paragraph (c) in the Code's s.
84(1) definition of a prohibited weapon should be struck down because of such
vagueness. While the dissenting judgment in Hasselwander evidences some concern
about the definition's vagueness and states it is incumbent on Parliament to
ensure clarity in drafting penal statutes, the majority judgment shows more
concern for protecting citizens from the perceived physical hazards of automatic
firearms than it shows for protecting those citizens like Mr. Hasselwander and
Mr. Rogan who wish to possess firearms from the legal hazards created for them
by vagueness in penal firearms legislation. Some characteristics of Canada's
present gun laws are obvious. They are very convoluted and confusing in some
portions. Their complexity taxes even the analytical skills of the Nation's
foremost jurists and it has created significant differences in opinion among
those jurists concerning the scope and meaning of key parts in the legislation.
The split decisions in Hasselwander and in Felawka evidence that.

93 When talented jurists have difficulty in ascertaining the proper
meaning of Canada's gun laws what chance does the average person have to
understand them? Whether or not aforementioned paragraph (c) can be, should be,
or ever will be struck down for vagueness surely it is only fair and reasonable
that Parliament strive to make such legislation as clear as possible especially
since Parliament through s. 19 of the Code has provided ignorance of the law by
a person who commits an offence is not an excuse for committing that offence.

94 Those Canadians who believe no private Canadian citizen should be
allowed to possess any type of firearm and who believe only the Nation's
military and police forces should be allowed to possess firearms might argue
vagueness and complexity in Canada's gun laws are good things. They might argue
these are good ways for Parliament to discourage Canadians from possessing
firearms without Parliament having to take that great political step of moving
to ban outright all private gun ownership in Canada. In other words they might
argue if Parliament finds it too drastic politically to ban outright the private
possession of guns, it should "red tape" it out of existence by making it so
legally inconvenient and hazardous to possess guns most Canadians will quit
doing so in frustration or out of a concern for running afoul of the law.

95 Those who believe banning the private possession of guns in Canada or
red taping such possession out of existence will create life-long security for
Canadians should keep the following realities in mind:

(1)Through s. 85 and other Code sections Canada already has strict gun
legislation in place. Criminals in general but especially the violent ones
- the rapists, robbers, drug dealers and murderers - aren't likely to be
much discouraged from possessing guns by more gun legislation. That
reality is additionally so if Canada's governments are unable or unwilling
for legal, financial or other reasons to detect crime, to prosecute crime,
to convict criminals and to confine convicted criminals behind bars far
more effectively than occurs at present.
(2)Contemporary Canadian society includes criminals, youths and adults,
who can and do commit violent crime including rape, robbery and murder
without relying upon firearms to effect their crimes.
(3)Persons who wish to commit suicide can and often do commit suicide
without using a firearm.
(4)Although firearms are a common method of suicide it seems unlikely
their possession is the motive for suicide.
(5)Police and military personnel cannot be at all places at all times to
protect honest but unarmed citizens from the abrupt and violent attack of
violent criminals. As has been the case in the past, there no doubt will
arise situations in the future where a firearm in the hands of a
responsible private citizen could prevent physical harm or loss of life to
innocent people. There are, and no doubt will continue to be,
circumstances where possessing firearms is the only practical way for
private citizens in Canada to enjoy a reasonable measure of that security
in person which s. 7 of the Charter embodies. Additionally security
extends beyond protecting oneself from violent criminals. Though it might
not appear so in downtown Toronto or in the Nation's courtrooms, Canada
remains a place of vast rural wilderness and the four-legged beasts living
therein aren't necessarily any more inclined to respect the s. 7 Charter
rights of honest but defenceless private citizens than our Nation's
criminals are.

96 Those present day Canadians who believe giving police and military
forces a monopoly on firearms brings security for private citizens should
perhaps look to past history and present world events such as Nazi Germany of
the past and Bosnia of the present. Doesn't world history tend to show the
potential for the collective official misuse of guns by military and police
forces especially where they enjoy a monopoly on firearms possession creates a
far greater and more widespread hazard for private citizens then does the
potential for gun abuse existent through private citizens possessing guns in
their capacity as private citizens?

97 At present within Canada federal and provincial governmental debt is a
weighty concern. The financial ability of all levels of government within Canada
to fund governmental services including maintaining military and police forces
would appear to be on the wane. In recent years Parliament has obviously
invested much time, effort and expense to make Canada's gun laws more
comprehensive and restrictive. One cannot but wonder whether if Parliament
instead had invested that time, effort and expense in both attacking the
underlying causes of crime and in promoting informed responsible private gun
ownership, the security of Canadians today as individuals and as a nation of
people might not have been better than it is at present.

98 I order that all exhibits in this hearing including the Respondent's
Sten gun receiver, Exhibit 1, be retained by the Clerk of the Court until the
appeal period applicable to this judgment expires.

99 I further order that immediately upon the expiry of the appeal period
the hearing's exhibits shall be dealt with as follows unless before then an
appeal from this judgment as been commenced:

(a)The document, Exhibit 2, shall be released to counsel for the
applicant, Crown.
(b)All other exhibits including exhibit 1, the Sten gun receiver, shall be
released to Mr. Rogan, the Respondent.

100 These orders conclude this court's judgment in the hearing.

DEMETRICK PROV. CT. J.
DRS/DRS/DRS
1
 
here is mine after engraving was done.... I have a 11.5" small hole A2 colt upper for it that I am waiting for a new A2 site kit to install and also putting on cav arms yellow furniture and ergo grip when they clear customs :) :)

I didn't do any of the machining or painting, I just financed and did assembly of off the shelf parts....


404699-big.JPG
 
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holy crap it took me 5 seconds just to scroll through that post, maybe some one can paraphrase it...

Can a person pretty much assemble a full AR less the triggre components and hang most beautifully on a wall?

put a picture frame around it and call it "art" ?

Drilling a few holes seems easy if the times were a changin....

F7
 
fed007 said:
holy crap it took me 5 seconds just to scroll through that post, maybe some one can paraphrase it...

Can a person pretty much assemble a full AR less the triggre components and hang most beautifully on a wall?

put a picture frame around it and call it "art" ?

Drilling a few holes seems easy if the times were a changin....

F7

drill all the holes except the one for the hammer...... if your making ARt you don't need a hammer anyway
 
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