My first .44 magnum attempts...

C

corsara

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Southern Ontario
Hi,

I am new to reloading, but I've done a bit. Mostly 30-06 so far, but I recently got a S&W 629 and consequently I need to reload for the 44 magnum.

After some research, I reloaded about 10 rounds of each of the following combinations, and went to the range to test (all are with 240 grain LSWC bullets and standard pistol primers):

Alliant 2400: 18.5 grains; 20 grains;
Alliant Unique: 7.5 grains; 9 grains; 10 grains;

Observations:

1) All 5 combinations leave me in a cloud of black smoke :(

2) 20 grains of 2400 and 9 grains of Unique seem to be more accurate than the others;

3) 20 grains of 2400 is not coming even close to the felt power of a factory bought American Eagle .44 magnum rounds.

Questions:

+ Do you have any recommendations that I should try with the 2400 and Unique I already have? Why is there so much smoke?

+ Is it possible with 2400 to get a really hot round like the factory loads, and would the lead cast swc bullets be alright with it?

+ What do they put in these factory loads, I want to be able to safely load such hot rounds too, what should I use?

Thank you in advance for helping a fellow reloader!

Cheers!
 
I use Unique for just about everything, including my 44 mag. I usually use 12 grains under a 240 grain cast bullet...no gas check.

Sorry man, but that's the nature of Unique. It can't quite decide if it want's to be black or smokeless power. It sure isn't smokeless. The thing is, it's cheap to reload with, it never fails to ignite, and a little goes a long way. I can't speak for 2400....never used it.
 
My cast bullet loads always produce more smoke than my plated or jacketed bullets.

It's the lead bullet/lube that's causing all the smoke.

For full power loads with lots of snap I like H110 powder :)
 
If you want to reduce smoke you will have to go to a copper jacketed/plated bullet. With Cast bullets you get the lube flashing off and some lead vaporizing. No way to get around this.
 
Elmer Keith's load for a 240-250 grain cast bullet was 22 grains of 2400. This is a pretty hot load and I strongly suggest you work up to it with caution. 2400 powder may have changed since his day, so you may or may not be able to reach that charge weight without pressure signs (severely flattened primers in conjunction with hard extraction).

25 grains of H110/W296 under a 240-250 grain LSWC is another "standard" full power load. Once again, all the standard warnings apply. L'il Gun is another good powder for this sort of thing.

Powders used in factory ammo aren't necessarily the same as cannister-grade powders sold for reloading. Factory ammo uses powders that are produced in much larger batches with a greater allowable lot-to-lot variation. The factory fine-tunes their load data for the powder lot.

That said, have you actually chronographed your reloads and the factory ammo? Your loads might be going faster than you think.
 
tjhaile said:
Elmer Keith's load for a 240-250 grain cast bullet was 22 grains of 2400. This is a pretty hot load and I strongly suggest you work up to it with caution. 2400 powder may have changed since his day, so you may or may not be able to reach that charge weight without pressure signs (severely flattened primers in conjunction with hard extraction).
Click to expand...

I hope I don't irritate you with this question, but can somebody post a picture or try to explain with simple words what a flattened primer is? I've searched for that, and got so many pictures of different primers, that I am completely confused now what is flattened, what is bulged or crated.

tjhaile said:
25 grains of H110/W296 under a 240-250 grain LSWC is another "standard" full power load. Once again, all the standard warnings apply.
Click to expand...

Well, I was thinking to try the H110, but the local gun shop is out of stock for jacketed bullets, and somewhere I read that this super hot loads are not good with lead hard cast projectiles?

tjhaile said:
That said, have you actually chronographed your reloads and the factory ammo? Your loads might be going faster than you think.
Click to expand...

No, I haven't chronographed them. But since the commercial ones banged a lot louder + the recoil was much worse, I figured mine are going slower. Isn't that true?
 
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Loads that came with my first .44 Mag were 4 grains over max of 2400 with Federal Magnum primers. The previous owner was a logger in Petersburg Alaska. One shot could be ejected with the ejector rod. Fire all six and they had to be punched out individually with a brass rod. There was a chain saw cut across the back strap and grips when he fell. Probably saved a slab of a$$ being carved off indiscriminately . . .
Do Not Go There unless you have life and death issues with grizzley bears. I sold that Model 29 and a new owner sent it back to Smith for a complete reconditioning. I bought another with a 6.5 barrel, and when silhouette started the 6.5 was replaced with an 8 3/8's and later with a 10.5. Some of the black on my hand could have been from lead and lube smoke but I like 296 better, especially for metering. A number used H110 . . . sometimes they won and sometimes I did.
 
I'll just add a bit, mostly to what has already been said.
Firstly, take it easy. Building up loads in a bolt action rifle is much different to building up loads in a revolver, especially, a S&W revolver. Not meaning to run down your gun, but it does not have the strength of a Ruger revolver.
An overload with a bolt action rifle rifle has a great deal of safety built into it. First, the bolt is stiff. A heavier load and the bolt is hard to open. Load heavier and you may need a solid piece of wood to break the bolt loose, but likely no damage to the rifle.
A revolver does not give you this amount of safety. You could shoot twenty rounds of heavy loads, all is fine. The 21st. could blow the cylinder apart. And don't bother asking me how I know this.
Flattened primers is only a rough guide, as to pressure. Like you have pointed out, one person's flat is another persons normal.
I have used Hercules 2400, the same as Elmer Keith used in developing the 44 mag. His load of 22 grains of that powder is a hot load. That load gave meaureable swelling of the base of the cartridges, where as the (usual) maximum load of H110/W296, 25 grains, did not. I would not go one speck over 22 grains of 2400, whether the old Hercules, or the newer Aliant.
When Winchester brought out their 296 powder, they claimed this was the powder used in their 44 magnum loads. With 250 grain bullets, they show for reloading, 24 grains for jacketed bullet and 25 grains for 250 grain cast bullet.
I would be extremely surprised if any factory loads give more velocity than does either 22 grains of 2400, or 24 grains of either H110, or W296, with a jacketed bullet.
The lube on cast bullets make smoke.
The powders we have listed, 2400 and 296/H110 are the traditional, classic standby powders for full power loads in a 44 magnum.
 
Thanks! Couple of questions below:

H4831 said:
.....Building up loads in a bolt action rifle is much different to building up loads in a revolver, especially, a S&W revolver. Not meaning to run down your gun, but it does not have the strength of a Ruger revolver.....

....I would not go one speck over 22 grains of 2400, whether the old Hercules, or the newer Aliant.....
Click to expand...

I understand without direct observations, a statement cannot be made, but what is your personal opinion about this: do you think 22 grains of 2400 under a 240 grain LSWC bullet is just about the max for a S&W 629, or I should definitely consider not going so high up with my S&W?

H4831 said:
The lube on cast bullets make smoke.
Click to expand...

That lube---any idea how toxic it is? Does it contain lead?
 
corsara I would suggest you start a tad lower say 19 gr of 2400 and slowly work up. MAx loads seldom equate to max accuracy. Like H4831 said the 629 is not as strong as Rugers. Great gun no doubt but loading to the max isn't goping to do the gun much good nor your wrists for that matter.

Unique works well in .44mag but I would start at 10 grains your load is below the starting load listed in Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook.

Take Care

Bob
 
Without a chronograph comparison, I would stick with your current load of 20 grain 2400. It appears to be shooting well, and if you are only concerned with 'charging paper targets' there is not a lot of need to try to squeeze another 100 fps from your revolver. And as cautioned already, it is not as forgiving as a Ruger Blackhawk.
With a chronograph you can start to make decisions as to your need for speed.
 
corsara said:
I hope I don't irritate you with this question, but can somebody post a picture or try to explain with simple words what a flattened primer is? I've searched for that, and got so many pictures of different primers, that I am completely confused now what is flattened, what is bulged or crated.
Click to expand...

Here is a picture of varying degrees of primer flattening:

pressure%20signs.jpg


Any sort of heavy load will likely show primer flattening to some extent, but if the flattening is both severe and cases are hard to extract, you need to back off of your charge weight. As mentioned, this is a rough guide only.

corsara said:
Well, I was thinking to try the H110, but the local gun shop is out of stock for jacketed bullets, and somewhere I read that this super hot loads are not good with lead hard cast projectiles?
Click to expand...

H110/W296 works just fine with cast bullets.

corsara said:
No, I haven't chronographed them. But since the commercial ones banged a lot louder + the recoil was much worse, I figured mine are going slower. Isn't that true?
Click to expand...

Maybe, but you can't say for sure without actually measuring it. Noise and felt recoil are subjective.
 
corsara said:
Thanks! Couple of questions below:



I understand without direct observations, a statement cannot be made, but what is your personal opinion about this: do you think 22 grains of 2400 under a 240 grain LSWC bullet is just about the max for a S&W 629, or I should definitely consider not going so high up with my S&W?

I have used that same Keith designed Lyman mold, in two different S&W 29s, with 22 grains of Hercules 2400. Never had a problem. However, dropping back the charge to 21, or even 20 grains, softened the load, yet didn't have that much effect at longer range. By longer range I mean to 200 metres. That was the longest range the silhouette targets, the ram, was at. Going from memory, I think it was only one more click on the sight, to get to 200 with 20 grains, than it took to get there with 22 grains.
To your question, is 22 grains max for the 29? Yes, without the slightest doubt.


That lube---any idea how toxic it is? Does it contain lead?
Click to expand...

I always made my own lube and there certainly was nothing toxic in it. My base was just bees wax and beef tallow, the same as I have read, that was used by the buffalo hunters. The worst the smoke smells like is that you burned the bacon!
 
As long as your cast bullet is a good fit and has good lube on it, you shouldn't have to worry about driving it at least as fast as jacketed in the .44 mag., some say bevel base cast bullets are not up to this(as opposed to flat bases). They say that the "new max. for 2400 powder from Alliant is 21.0 grs. due to faster burning then in Elmer's day. Good luck and don't stop experimenting with loads and bullets, thats what makes it so much fun!!
 
reload recipes,......RELOADING MANUAL

Hi Corsara, a fellow BRRC member here following this post.All these nice Gentleman's suggestions are fine & dandy,however, the first rule of reloading is get yourself a reloading manual.Secondly,cross reference all suggested loads from these fine firearm owners for your own personal safety.Not sure if I remember you mentioning you have been load developing from a particular manual or not.I too have recently purchased a .44mag pistol: Ruger Super Blackhawk stainless 5.5" barrel,absolutely Gorgeous Big Iron! The felt recoil of factory loads is quite overwhelming at times & I have been looking at the high end of .44 special/low end of .44mag loads with a copper jacket.In this range I hope to find the sweet 3/4 recoil of full house .44mag & accuracy that I can live with.The bullet i have chosen is the CamPro copper jacket & the powder is Alliant 2400.PM me if you would like more info. SgtRock
 
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