My first antique! Load recommendations?

[762mm]

Allrighty fellows, I just received my first antique in the mail today. It's a Remington No.4 New Model revolver that I acquired in a very nice shape and, may I add, at a very good price from Mr. Dingus.. who was very helpful, honest & prompt every step of the way (thanks again for all you help bud!).

Anyway, the gun looks & works very nice, has clean chambers, seemingly good timing and a good bore, with some minor pitting and visible rifling. I bought this gun to see how I like this whole antique thing and I am pleased to say that I have fully converted. The absence of the useless registry getting involved here is always the biggest plus... it basically gives you the feel of the way it should always be for law abiding citizens - in a perfect world, that is.

Anywho, because the gun is built to use very hard to get ammo (.38RF), I will only be using the "Dixie Co." brass - basically, it's an empty case adaptor for .38RF and the way it works is that you stick a 'starter gun' .22 blank bullet on the rim side, fill the case with black powder and stick a .38 lead ball on the other end, pushing it in approx. half way... and that's about all there's to it.

Now, if any of you have experience with the Dixie stuff, could you tell me what BP is best to use in order to keep the pressures at their lowest and to get the cleanest results? Since the gun is an antique pocket revolver (even though it is in a nice condition), I am not sure if I want to experiment with too strong of a powder. I am still a newbie to reloading and especially BP. Also, if there's a simple & safe way to use smokeless in Dixies, I'm all ears... as I've recently acquired a 1LB of HP-38 to reload my .38 special... so I guess you know where this is going, lol!

Anyway, here's some pics of my newest acquisition:

The Remy and his 5 best & rarest friends in the whole wide world:

Ok, these aren't the .38RF bullets in there... they're only the empty Dixie shells!

Dixie shell close-up:

P.S. Also, can anyone tell me where to get .38 lead balls (.370 diameter)? I went around town last week and no stores around here have any. I'd need approx 1 box of 100 to start. Thanks in advance!

 

[DEZ]

30 or 32 cal buckshot buy the bag from wholesale sports I bought 32cal and just pushed them through a lee .309 sizing die. PS smokless sounds like a good way to turn that little beast into parts

 

[beefman]

Nice piece.....would you mind if I asked what something like that is worth?
I would LOVE to have a little pistol like that as a "finisher" for deer hunting.

 

[mooncoon]

I would use 3F black in the gun and just fill the case to the level of the base of the ball.

cheers mooncoon

 

[dingus]

30 or 32 cal buckshot buy the bag from wholesale sports I bought 32cal and just pushed them through a lee .309 sizing die. PS smokless sounds like a good way to turn that little beast into parts

He is asking about 38 Caliber RF Bullets not 32 RF
I told him there might be some helpfuff info here from guys shooting Dixie Cases Maby .

But he needs 38 Caliber advise.
Isnt there a Common little 38 Cal wad cutter that would work well for the Dixie cases?

 

[Unsub]

I wonder just how many people Dingus has helped get into this hobby?
Thanks from me to Mark!

Coming home and finding a gun in my mailbox was an eye opener for me as well.
The best thing about antiques though besides the people is the guns themselves.
They have so much history and character and were made by real craftsmen who took pride in their work. You just don't get that with a Glock.

 

[762mm]

30 or 32 cal buckshot buy the bag from wholesale sports I bought 32cal and just pushed them through a lee .309 sizing die. PS smokless sounds like a good way to turn that little beast into parts

Allright, thanks... but I only need a few balls (lol.. that doesn't sound right!), plus I forgot that it's a .370 I need, not a .310... I got mixed up with the requirement for.32RF Dixie cases - mine is a .38RF, so .370 balls are needed. Sorry for the confusion, I'm still a bit of a lost FNG here...

I would use 3F black in the gun and just fill the case to the level of the base of the ball.

cheers mooncoon

Thanks mooncoon, that,s the info I was looking for. I have bought some 3F BP substitute (the maker is "American... (something)") and it says that it burns clean + gives good velocities with the same charge. Originally it was purchased for my Lyman Deerstalker flintlock rifle, but I haven't used/fired it yet either.

Nice piece.....would you mind if I asked what something like that is worth?
I would LOVE to have a little pistol like that as a "finisher" for deer hunting.

It wasn't bad at all... less than most restricted pistols for sale that you see. About in the half-a-K range (although I believe I got myself a bargain, don't quote me on this)... I just don't know if 'finishing' a deer with a pistol would be allowed, even if it's an antique. Technically speaking, the use of anything that falls into the pistol category (even air pistols) for hunting purposes is illegal all across the country. The best thing to do would be to call up the CFC and ask them before you venture that way.

I wonder just how many people Dingus has helped get into this hobby?
Thanks from me to Mark!

Coming home and finding a gun in my mailbox was an eye opener for me as well.
The best thing about antiques though besides the people is the guns themselves.
They have so much history and character and were made by real craftsmen who took pride in their work. You just don't get that with a Glock.

Ditto! Dingus is a great guy, I was very surprised at how helpful he was... I wish some of our local stores/banks/whatever had this level of customer service, lol! The gun itself is both cool and somewhat 'sad'... sad in the respect that it's over 130 years old and EVERYONE who participated in making this fine piece and, most likely, its' first few owners are no longer a part of this world. It's almost like a testament to how short-term everything is for us common mortals... it was made approx 60 years before WWII started... imagine that! (If we knew then what we know now... It's deep, I know!).

 

[DEZ]

I have a mold for .375 heeled bullets would they chamber? its a mold I had from a 380 cal hills patent self extracter I used to own

 

[mooncoon]

I would start by slugging the bore; I think it should be .380 or close to. .390 round ball is semi common; they are used in 40 cal rifles. You could size them to .380 or a little under and glue them in place with airplane glue. Try loading two and firing one then check to make sure that the second one does not come loose with the recoil.

You could make an el cheapo sizing die by drilling a 3/8 hole in a piece of 3/8 to 1/2" steel and opening it up slightly. You also could probably create a heal on the ball by drilling a shallow hole .360" diameter at a guess, in a piece of larger rod and stamping the heal onto the ball. With a bit of luck there is a letter drill the right size.
Finally with black powder substitutes you want to be sure that it generates the same pressure for the same volume as black.

cheers mooncoon

 

[762mm]

I have a mold for .375 heeled bullets would they chamber? its a mold I had from a 380 cal hills patent self extracter I used to own

Thanks.. I have a double cavity .38/.357 semi-wadcutter Lee mold coming to me in the mail (for my other reload needs), so I'll see if that fits. I have exactly 2000 .38 special semi-wadcutters already (all lead, made by Remington)... butI really wanted to try the .38 balls first.

I would start by slugging the bore; I think it should be .380 or close to. .390 round ball is semi common; they are used in 40 cal rifles. You could size them to .380 or a little under and glue them in place with airplane glue. Try loading two and firing one then check to make sure that the second one does not come loose with the recoil.

You could make an el cheapo sizing die by drilling a 3/8 hole in a piece of 3/8 to 1/2" steel and opening it up slightly. You also could probably create a heal on the ball by drilling a shallow hole .360" diameter at a guess, in a piece of larger rod and stamping the heal onto the ball. With a bit of luck there is a letter drill the right size.
Finally with black powder substitutes you want to be sure that it generates the same pressure for the same volume as black.

cheers mooncoon

Thanks for the info, I'll look into that. As far as the powder substitue is concerned, I have no idea about pressures... I'll have to research it before loading.

 

[MauserMike]

(IMO) forget the substitutes and find some holy black 3F.

 

[jetrefueller]

Hey 762 you have the bug now and it's damn hard to shake. Once you shoot that little gun you will want to try something bigger like one of the old hoglegs from the old west.
Before you know it you want to know how the old gunfighters felt then you almost have to re-mortgage the house..LOL. It's a great hobby but you will get deeper.

 

[762mm]

Hey 762 you have the bug now and it's damn hard to shake. Once you shoot that little gun you will want to try something bigger like one of the old hoglegs from the old west.
Before you know it you want to know how the old gunfighters felt then you almost have to re-mortgage the house..LOL. It's a great hobby but you will get deeper.

Lol! I know that already... I'm already planning on putting some $ aside just for that. I actually have 2 members that made me some promising offers on this forum and I'm planning on making sure I can manage when time comes. A nice Colt & a S&W are in the plans for the fairly near future... I'm definitely gonna have to get something in .44 Russian due to the ease of finding/making ammo for it.

The Remington No.4 pictured above is not bad however... the Dixie cases reloads seem very straight forward and simple to make (plus they do not require any tools such as presses, dies, etc). It's almost like a traditional BP revolver, except that you load a case instead of the cylinder - in other words, you could say that you're getting the best of both worlds (easy extra equipment free reloading + a cartridge revolver that can be reloaded very fast).

Overall, I am very pleased with it... I'm playing with it again today and the more I do, the more I like it. Like it was mentioned above, it is a whole different feeling than you get with a modern pistol such as a Glock (which I also have - a G17 in 9mm para).

But, the best part is that no matter what happens, with antiques you're sure not to be losing your investment money (in the case of a confiscation without compensation à la U.K., for example). When budget allows (some time down the road - give or take a year or so), I will get myself a nice Webley also, like the one that showed up in EE today. That's seems to be a fine piece and worth the 2k+ asking price IMHO. Heck, you can buy a modern Ruger revolver for 1k+ and may have to give it up to the government at some point, so the extra cash you spend on a perfect condition/restored antique is a guarantee of uninterrupted ownership the way I see it. If things go really bad for the RPAL/restricted owners (more red tape BS, more requirements for club memberships + higher costs, etc), I may just sell off my restricteds (all 10 of them) and buy antiques instead. I'd probably get fewer guns for the price in the end, but also much less of a headache with the "man" (none, actually).

For the time being, I'm keeping the fight alive on both fronts and trying to get as many people into the restricted hobby as I can (with some success too - I already managed to convert a few). My restricteds are safely locked up in a safe and my club membership is valid. But, if they come down on us RPAL owners too hard and we lose the fight for good, it's gonna be time to move into other options while time still allows. Sad but true in our urbanite-controlled & pussy-whipped society.

Anyway, antiques rule in every way! I wish I was made aware of how this stuff legally works YEARS ago... oh well... live and learn!

 

[MauserMike]

But, the best part is that no matter what happens, with antiques you're sure not to be losing your investment money (in the case of a confiscation without compensation à la U.K., for example).

I wouldn't count on that. You're free of registration and licensing but if they declared prohibited they are prohibited.

 

[dingus]

I wouldn't count on that. You're free of registration and licensing but if they declared prohibited they are prohibited.

Well even in jolly old England they can still have Antique Revolvers With out a lic or Reg just like us.
They just cant shoot theres like we can.
So unless we get worse than england (if we do im moveing to South america ) we should be OK.

+ as far as Value Even IF the Liberals get back in and Made Everything Ilegal we can still sell our antiques back to the USA or England and France even.
But i wouldnt. just saying your not stuck with a Antique ever.
There a great investment.

So to say "they" Could DECLARE them Ilegal or prohibited well the Sky could fall the axis could shift the sun could turn off alot could happen eh!

 

[762mm]

I wouldn't count on that. You're free of registration and licensing but if they declared prohibited they are prohibited.

What Dingus said... Plus if they want them, they gotta find them first!



It *may* be a little harder to sell at that point (to close friends and relatives only as a SHTF insurance, I guess), but at least it's not getting smelted into a 2015 "Kia Sh*tbox" or a "Honda Yomobile" like the rest of the (registered) firearms would!

I'd like to see how they'd justify a nation-wide antique sniffing operation that would literally cost billions to run... the non-restricted registry being a perfect example... and how they'd justify illegal searches on the premises of a "possibility" of antique firearm's presence in a household. Even the most hardcore Libs wouldn't be able to justify THAT to the public!