My first spotting scope.... opinions please.

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secondgen

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TGIF folks,

After many years of wanting one I'm finally going to buy a spotting scope.

Parameters:

I will be using the scope for both hunting and at the range. While hunting I tend to cover a fair amount of ground with just my go pack and rifle. If I find a good spot I will often hunker down for many hours usually reclined on my back or sitting on my butt. I have taken quite a few longer shots successfully, however my preference is to spot and stalk if at all possible. I do hunt in all weather conditions so performance in adverse conditions is important. I mostly hunt deer (white, mule and blacktail) and moose but would like to also like to go out for elk, goat and sheep at some point.

At the range I will be shooting a 10.5" AR (open sights), handgun and my hunting rifle which is a 7mm Rem Mag Tikka with a soon to be replaced Bushnell 3-9 x 40 3200 Elite. I don't have tons of experience with high-end optics but I have always liked the value Bushnell represents (i.e. 3200 scope and Elite E2 binos).

What are your real-world experiences? Do you have a scope that has preformed for you year after year that you simply can't do without? Do you prefer angled or straight barrel? Objective lens size? Magnification?

Please, let's not make this into another Vortex haters v. Vortex lover's thread.

My Budget is $800 - $1,500 but who doesn't like to get a deal!

Thus far I have been looking at the following:

Bushnell Elite 20-60x80mm Angled
opplanet-bushnell-elite-20-60-80mm-angled-spotting-scope-784580.jpg


Vortex Razor HD 16-48x65 Angled
spt_rzr-hd-85a_l-t.jpg
 
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After careful soul searching come up with a price that leaves you feeling a little sick to your stomach and dizzy. Double that and go shopping. It'll save you money in the end.
 
illae said:
For 1400 or so+tax you can get a very nice Kowa (TSN-663) - which is better than the two you've listed.
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or the Kowa TSN-82SV 82mm ... you should look at these two at least before making a decision. Either way Kowa are VERY good all around value and you wont be disappointed.
 
Go to a shooting range and ask nicely to use what people there are using with YOUR eyes. What is great for some folks will not necessarily be good for you. I have the curse of being "four eyed" and have had a hard time finding something that worked for me glasses on or off. I had the opportunity to look through a few spotting scopes at the range once, high end to low end, and the one that worked best for me with glasses on (and other non glasses wearing guys) was far from the most expensive.
 
People who spend top dollar for premium optics don't abuse their gear. I'd look for a used Zeiss, Leica, Kowa, or Swarovski with a 65mm objective. Should be able to find a previous generation model within your budget and it'll far exceed anything you could buy new for the same money.
 
Thanks guys,

I will have a serious look at Kowa.

Dogleg said:
After careful soul searching come up with a price that leaves you feeling a little sick to your stomach and dizzy. Double that and go shopping. It'll save you money in the end.
Click to expand...

Lol could probably say that about every purchase!

Cheers!
 
Dogleg said:
After careful soul searching come up with a price that leaves you feeling a little sick to your stomach and dizzy. Double that and go shopping. It'll save you money in the end.
Click to expand...

Wiser words have never been spoken. I wish I had taken heed to this idea about 10 years ago. I have gone through the phase of buying the cheapest I can find just to get a gun, then proceeded to upgrade value but had my mind on one thing and would compromise when I found a good deal on a used item that was "very close". Now I'm pearing down and buying quality new items so that I get exactly what I want. Could have saved thousands if I just did that in the first place. Don't compromise or you'll end up just selling it down the road to buy what you originally wanted. Leica, zeiss, swarovski all good options and in your price range of $1500 i'm sure you can find used in good condition
 
I've had good luck with Sightron in scopes, binos and spotting scopes. Good enough for my eyes and I don't feel bad bouncing it around in a pack hunting.

Try Hirsch for this

SII BL 20-60X85HD-A Spotting Scope, Angled Eyepiece, Waterproof
 
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I looked thru a couple of the ones you listed then had the opportunity to look thru a Night force TS-82 after that there was no looking back ordered it got it love it. I got the 20-70 x 82 unbelievable I spotted game at 4-5 km this year!
 
I was told a large group of shooters at Borden lined up a pile of spotters to compare them side by each and the winner was a VORTEX. I'm neither a fan nor hater of that brand, just letting you know.
 
I run like a mini tele scope. 65mm OBJ 90X. 100Y we could see the dimples of the guys siding, 10KM we could tell what make and model a car was. By the emblem. I paid about 100 for it.
 
I have a Pentax 20X60-80 Paid a little over 1000 bucks for it used from New York Camera as it was a demo. It is a good scope, but the optics can not match in clarity to my best Leupold VX3. Yes I can see 30 caliber bullet holes at 100 meters in a paper target and depending on conditions I can see holes at 300, but that is about it. It is my opinion that in order to get good optics ya get what ya pay for. At 2 to 5 thou is where things start to get good. I guess it all depends on what your personal standards are and how much you demand from your scope. I can say this for sure do not expect to spend less than a grand and be satisfied. Looking through a substandard set of optics can give you real pain in the form of eyestrain and headaches so save up, buy once and buy right.
 
Not being able to see where the bullets are landing during a match is a disappointing experience. It cost my shooting partner and I a lot of points, you can't correct what you can't see. I am saving up for a Kowa 883 or 773 (still deciding). When it comes to optics it pays to have quality glass.
 
A friend of mine has a Bushnell Elite 20-60x80mm Angled, I use a Kowa TSN-1. When shooting at 1000 yards, he has a hard time seeing the 6 inch orange spotter on a black target face. While it is quite clear to me.

There are a few things that can make a so-so spotting scope better for your needs. First off is to try as many different eye pieces if the scope you are looking to buy has interchangeable eye pieces. Some of the zoom eye pieces are not as good as the fixed power eye piece. Usually the more power the eye piece has the more it will reduce eye relief, something eye glass wearers should consider. Another thing is the sturdiness of your spotting scope stand, if it is wobbling around it can be a real PITA to view the target.

I have found that angled eye pieces causes less neck strain when shooting or spotting from a prone position. It is also a lot easier if you are sitting in the coaches chair to look over the scope instead of around it when checking the wind flags.
 
I have a Bushnell Legend. I mainly use it on 20x its clear enough to see the spotters at 1k like that. It also picks up a huge amount of mirage, for seeing things clear not so good, for wind reading its great. And that's what I do with it read wind and keep it at a wide FOV so I can see where other peoples shots are landing on the line.
If your carrying the scope around maybe size is going to be a primary factor.
 
This is a worthwhile read http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-equipment/a-pupil-primer/ and it provides some insight into exit pupils and the balance between objective diameter and magnification. To be sure there are other factors like eye relief (to be able to leave your shooting glasses on ) and angular field of view (which might provide a broader image of the mirage which can indicate wind and/or displace your target - and possibly look at how other shooters' targets have been effected)..... however what is important is that there is a proper exit pupil diameter for each of of us (depending on the prevailing lighting conditions) that will give us the optimal image. Too much exit pupil can be a waste and too little will not give us the best image our eye could use. I think that John Unertl knew a thing or two about this when he settled on 24x, 63 for his more popular HP spotting scopes - a balance of size, image quality, power and exit pupil for the prevailing conditions of long range shooting. Not perfect - but a perfect compromise


Regarding Kowa optics --- I have zeiss and leitz, swarovski etc etc all very good ... but I think some folks believe that Kowa just fell off a turnip truck when it comes to making excellent optics. Quick story ... years ago I purchased several medium format film camera's ... two were the famed Rollei Twin Lens Reflex both equipped with what was acknowledged as the finest "taking" lenses for the purpose - Carl Zeiss 3,5 - 75mm Planar's. I subsequentally purchased a "late '50's" Kowa Kalloflex fitted with their 3.5- 75mm Prominar ... comparing numerous Ektachromes (2 1/4 x 2 1/4 slides) on both a Prado Universal and Rollie 6x6 projectors enlarged to 10ft x 10ft ... the Prominar images consistently exceeded the Zeiss images for contrast, resolving power and overall image impact. I later duplicated this test with a Hasselblad 80 planar T* lense and the Prominar still was superior. All to say - I personally have very high regard for the Kowa optics.
 
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I used a little Kowa compact 20X for TR shooting for years. Fine for seeing the indicators, mirage, etc. Not so good for bullet holes.
Have upgraded to a Kowa 663 with LER 25X eyepiece. Difference of night and day. The 6 series are more compact than the 8 series.
 
As others have suggested, go to a birding store and look through a Kowa. I have one and they are awesome. Find the one in your price range and you won't be disappointed. There is a reason so many birders who are obsessive about detail use them. More than a few sheep guides use them as well when I was out west.
 
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