My kingdom for a decent 180

DaveMachine

DaveMachine

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I've got two broad questions I want to put to the lot of you that'll hopefully result in some lively discussion.

Why can't anyone seem to produce a functional 180 clone?

Why do Canadian produced firearms (with the exception of CC) regularly blow copious amounts of ass?

Bonus question: Should Kodiak and Wolverine just outsource production to some Chinese state factory/Norinco?
 
Because they are trying to meet a certain price point to satisfy us cheap f*cks and in order to do so you have to sacrifice quality unfortunately. Do you know what machining time costs?

Take a look at ATRS; they're Canadian and they're quality.

And to answer your bonus question; no, I'd rather not have China take over production. Rather keep it here Kinda personally invested in that one.
 
Wolverine does not nor did they ever 'make' the 180C or MCR

Kodiak and Spectre Ltd use the cheapest parts the can (IMHO) to keep the price point down

Would I pay more for better quality parts - you bet. Note that ATRS is now making barrels, I'm hoping for BC and Bolt as well made out of 'real' metal...

Seems the iRUNGUNS NoDak Spud/PWS 180 has gone by the wayside - was definitely something I would have looked at - they were talking of 'trying' to keep it at around $1800.
 
Outside of the roll pin retaining the firing pin. What is unsatisfactory about the MCR for the money ? its seems pretty good from what ive read and watched. Ill probably get one of the MX kits when they start offering a rifle length gas system so I can use higher end NR barrels.
 
Poor design choices regarding materials. They don’t necessarily need to be expensive but do need correct characteristics
 
I have 2 WS MCR with 3000 and 1000 rounds through them.

The roll pin was a foolish idea. Other than that I can't find anything valid to complain about. My complaints are things that would increase the price point higher than most would want to pay.

It would be easy to go down the customization path by making all the edges less sharp, cerakote and installing upgraded parts. Im sure some have done this already. :)
 
Gatehouse said:
I have 2 WS MCR with 3000 and 1000 rounds through them.

The roll pin was a foolish idea. Other than that I can't find anything valid to complain about. My complaints are things that would increase the price point higher than most would want to pay.

It would be easy to go down the customization path by making all the edges less sharp, cerakote and installing upgraded parts. Im sure some have done this already. :)
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^
I suggested to ATRS on their barrel thread they do exactly that with an WX-MCR receiver with their barrels, and call it the WAX-MCR :)
 
DaveMachine said:
Broken pistons, broken bolt lugs, cheesy 3d printed parts, finicky with mags, silly design choices, etc etc etc.

Honestly, I want to see these domestically produced guns do well.
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Broken pistons sound like a WK thing, according to the Huntinggearguy. Never heard about the bolt lug issue before. I dont find the 3d printed shell deflector as a take away. It will probably last, and if it doesnt, I bet you can buy them for a buck a piece if not less.

The latest version of MCR featured in this video looks pretty refined for $1350 cad. Slap a WK bolt release in her and its pretty near perfect.

 
Honestly, there are a couple things I'd like to see done differently with the WS-MCR but the more I shoot it, the less I care and the more I think it's a great, reliable rifle. I've got 1000rds through mine and the only technical issue with it is that it won't run Pmags. Every other polymer and metal mag I've tried runs problem free so it's not the end of the world, for me. It's as accurate (or more so) than a "rack-grade" AR-15 and it's been perfectly reliable with everything from bulk factory ammo to various handloads from 55-75gr. I'd rather see a more refined version of it (and would be willing to pay the extra) but understand that it was built to a price point. Being able to use your choice of AR grip, stock and trigger really lets you set it up to pretty much feel like your AR did (minus the different ergos around the charging handle). Once a bolt release is added, there's really nothing functionally wrong with it.
 
DaveMachine said:
Which model was it that had issues with the top pic rail separating from the upper?

Similar construction methods for both models I assume?
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You can confirm with Wolverine, but I believe the picrail is part of the upper receiver assembly now, not an attached piece. Likely part of the design changes when they made it right eject/left charge only.
 
DaveMachine said:
I've got two broad questions I want to put to the lot of you that'll hopefully result in some lively discussion.

Why can't anyone seem to produce a functional 180 clone?

Why do Canadian produced firearms (with the exception of CC) regularly blow copious amounts of ass?

Bonus question: Should Kodiak and Wolverine just outsource production to some Chinese state factory/Norinco?
Click to expand...

What is it about the ar 180 design you like so much? I'm a red rifle and 22lr guy, not an ar guy, so honest question.
CDN manufacturers can, and do take one of two roads. Cheap price and cut corners like the 180c garbage or high quality and high corresponding price like the MV by ATRS. Pick one and be happy, lol. You can have inexpensive, reliable and well made, but only 2 out of the 3.
 
Ustauk said:
You can confirm with Wolverine, but I believe the picrail is part of the upper receiver assembly now, not an attached piece. Likely part of the design changes when they made it right eject/left charge only.
Click to expand...
That's one of the silly design choices I was talking about. Why that was even considered, much less let out the door blows my mind.

infidel29 said:
What is it about the ar 180 design you like so much? I'm a red rifle and 22lr guy, not an ar guy, so honest question.
CDN manufacturers can, and do take one of two roads. Cheap price and cut corners like the 180c garbage or high quality and high corresponding price like the MV by ATRS. Pick one and be happy, lol. You can have inexpensive, reliable and well made, but only 2 out of the 3.
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Not particularly married to the 180 but I'm not ready to spend 3-4k on another rifle for service rifle/3gun for it wind up where I can't take it out legally 6mos down the road. Seems to me to be the best blend of cost/accuracy/function but the reliability just isn't there. As for red rifles, for the most part, they're essentially useless for service rifle of you're looking to do more than just make noise.
 
DaveMachine said:
That's one of the silly design choices I was talking about. Why that was even considered, much less let out the door blows my mind.



Not particularly married to the 180 but I'm not ready to spend 3-4k on another rifle for service rifle/3gun for it wind up where I can't take it out legally 6mos down the road. Seems to me to be the best blend of cost/accuracy/function but the reliability just isn't there. As for red rifles, for the most part, they're essentially useless for service rifle of you're looking to do more than just make noise.
Click to expand...

Well red rifles at least WORK reliably for the most part
 
DaveMachine said:
I've got two broad questions I want to put to the lot of you that'll hopefully result in some lively discussion.

Why can't anyone seem to produce a functional 180 clone?

Why do Canadian produced firearms (with the exception of CC) regularly blow copious amounts of ass?

Bonus question: Should Kodiak and Wolverine just outsource production to some Chinese state factory/Norinco?
Click to expand...

There is another exception or two, but I hear you. Likely because it costs a lot to produce anything here, relatively speaking.. never mind items of top tier quality.
I second the vote to invest locally in our own economy, with the world headed in a weird direction, we should probably be putting on our national oxygen mask (or get someone in power who can.)
 
DaveMachine said:
That's one of the silly design choices I was talking about. Why that was even considered, much less let out the door blows my mind.



Not particularly married to the 180 but I'm not ready to spend 3-4k on another rifle for service rifle/3gun for it wind up where I can't take it out legally 6mos down the road. Seems to me to be the best blend of cost/accuracy/function but the reliability just isn't there. As for red rifles, for the most part, they're essentially useless for service rifle of you're looking to do more than just make noise.
Click to expand...

Honestly, for 3-gun and service rifle, I think a WS-MCR would serve you well without outlaying 3-4k, like you say. Buy one for $1350, make sure that the firing pin retainer is an AR-style cotter pin (if not, swap one in), replace the crappy stock, add a bolt release ($50), then swap in your preferred stuff from your AR (trigger, optic, buis, etc) and you're off to the races for a pretty minimal investment. The rifle is accurate (mine is <1.5 moa with loads it likes and <2moa with bulk 55s) and has been reliable for 1000rds.

We'd all rather be using ARs but such is the bull#### predicament we're in now thanks to that numbnut sack of #### of a pm we have and his horde of imbecile supporters.
 
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