My kingdom for a decent 180

DaveMachine said:
I've got two broad questions I want to put to the lot of you that'll hopefully result in some lively discussion.

Why can't anyone seem to produce a functional 180 clone?

Why do Canadian produced firearms (with the exception of CC) regularly blow copious amounts of ass?

Bonus question: Should Kodiak and Wolverine just outsource production to some Chinese state factory/Norinco?
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The 180 was designed around being mass produced for countries in the 100s of thousands by large manufacturers such as Sterling not for small companies in highly controlled civilian markets.

The current designs & manufacturing processes are being driven by a 2021 small civilian market not a 1960s international market. $200 SKSs, $1000 Type-81s and other things were not available to the civilian market at the time and nor were they comparable products.

The manufacturing & retail of firearms and their price point existed in a completely different reality. Shockingly the 2020s are a different thing than say the 1990s.

Bonus Question: Why do people put so little critical thinking or consideration into these things before throwing wild assumptions/claims into the public space as if they are fact?
 
rugbydave said:
Honestly, for 3-gun and service rifle, I think a WS-MCR would serve you well without outlaying 3-4k, like you say. Buy one for $1350, make sure that the firing pin retainer is an AR-style cotter pin (if not, swap one in), replace the crappy stock, add a bolt release ($50), then swap in your preferred stuff from your AR (trigger, optic, buis, etc) and you're off to the races for a pretty minimal investment. The rifle is accurate (mine is <1.5 moa with loads it likes and <2moa with bulk 55s) and has been reliable for 1000rds.

We'd all rather be using ARs but such is the bull#### predicament we're in now thanks to that numbnut sack of #### of a pm we have and his horde of imbecile supporters.
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EXACTLY !

What more could people expect for a $1350 gun. Even before OIC the only NR .223s that were cheaper then that was the Mini 14, SU 16, T97 and VZ 58s. And those all had there fair share of problems.
 
DaveMachine said:
I've got two broad questions I want to put to the lot of you that'll hopefully result in some lively discussion.

Why can't anyone seem to produce a functional 180 clone?
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H&K SL-8.
At current rates that haven't changed for years, they are probably the best bang for the buck .223 autoloader out there.
If you can live with the funky thumbhole stock, and keep the mods to the minimum, they remain reasonably priced.
 
The only reason the AR15 is inexpensive is because millions unit have been produced by dozens of manufacturers.

That’s why you can’t get an inexpensive AR180: low volume and not enough competition. (The same is true for electric cars...)
 
AlexF said:
The only reason the AR15 is inexpensive is because millions unit have been produced by dozens of manufacturers.

That’s why you can’t get an inexpensive AR180: low volume and not enough competition. (The same is true for electric cars...)
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This plus the fact that all the necessary dimensions are in the public domain so zero R & D is required. Anyone with a CNC machine can manufacture uppers and lowers to spec (or purchase forgings and finish them) and then finish them with whatever level of "parts" they desire and end up with an AR-15. All the Canadian AR-180B variants had to be re-designed, tested, etc.
 
Does anyone know if the mdt folding stock adapter would work with the ar180b?

I tried the galil stock and I had issues with the cheek weld and the shape of the butt pad (otherwise it was a well made stock).
 
AlexF said:
The only reason the AR15 is inexpensive is because millions unit have been produced by dozens of manufacturers.

That’s why you can’t get an inexpensive AR180: low volume and not enough competition. (The same is true for electric cars...)
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I'd agree with you if it wasn't for NEA/BCL pumping out hot garbage. I'm sticking to my theory &#55358;&#56611;
 
Mik123 said:
Does anyone know if the mdt folding stock adapter would work with the ar180b?

I tried the galil stock and I had issues with the cheek weld and the shape of the butt pad (otherwise it was a well made stock).
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It works great. If you have a WS-MCR that is setup for left-side charging you need to run the adapter "upside down" as it's meant to open to the left and the charging handle will interfere. Setup to open to the right, it works great. You can't run a "wider" stock (like a STR) with the version that locks open and closed but a normal width stock (like a CTR) is just fine. You can run a wider stock and just not have it sit flush when folded, I guess. Same would go on an AR with a folding adapter like the Law Tactical.
 
Thanks for the feedback, it's looks to be a quaility unit and I get to support MDt as well.

rugbydave said:
It works great. If you have a WS-MCR that is setup for left-side charging you need to run the adapter "upside down" as it's meant to open to the left and the charging handle will interfere. Setup to open to the right, it works great. You can't run a "wider" stock (like a STR) with the version that locks open and closed but a normal width stock (like a CTR) is just fine. You can run a wider stock and just not have it sit flush when folded, I guess. Same would go on an AR with a folding adapter like the Law Tactical.
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Bratwurst said:
Bonus Question: Why do people put so little critical thinking or consideration into these things before throwing wild assumptions/claims into the public space as if they are fact?
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Because Canadian gun owners are, for the most part, ignorant, self entitled whiners.

You could come out with an $800 180 type and the whining will be "Well I can get an SKS for $300! Why would I buy that?"
 
Mik123 said:
Does anyone know if the mdt folding stock adapter would work with the ar180b?

I tried the galil stock and I had issues with the cheek weld and the shape of the butt pad (otherwise it was a well made stock).
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The Matador arms sidewinder is another Canadian option (for the next week or two until they move south). And is double locking.
 
I'm not sure if the B&T APC 223 qualifies as a derivative of the 180, but it looks to be largely based on that design. It's the Swiss watch of AR's in Canada.
 
ATRS has indicated that with the costs of ongoing OIC litigation they do not have the funds to license the MCR for their own production. However:

From the ATRS MCR/WK Match Grade Barrel Thread:

Ustauk said:
If someone procured the WX-MCR receiver and parts kit , could they send it to you for assembly with your barrel and high quality parts?
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Alberta Tactical Rifle Supply said:
We can always do assembly and frankly on custom barrels we prefer to do the assembly. That way if the gas port requires being opened up to ensure cycling we can deal with that rather than using an arbitrary size and hoping for the best.
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Ustauk said:
Having you assemble a complete firearm from a sent in receiver with the rest built from your choice parts is the closest we can get to having a having a factory "Gucci" build AR until the OIC mess is over.
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So, if you're not into doing the build yourself, for now a good option to get "decent" 180 based rifle may be to get a WX-MCR receiver and parts kit, and then work with ATRS to use their barrel and other high quality components to produce a high quality custom MCR. The receiver won't have the fit and finish of an in-house ATRS product, but it would seem to be the best we could get other then the Swiss rifle mentioned earlier.
 
Ceiferiro said:
They stopped. Thats what they did wrong
also no dust cover a-la OG 180. But Ive shot my bud's RWA180 and au gotta say the build quality is leaps ahead of the WS or WK.
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OG 180 has a dust cover, 180b does not. With the removable side plates of the RWA adding a dust cover is doable, either sig 550 style or OG180. From what I remember it was in the plans but being undercut by the WK killed the project.
 
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