My new toy: a Martini-Henry Mk.IV (pic heavy)

[762mm]

Here'a my new acquisition which arrived this Tuesday. Big thanks to sask_flatlander for being a great guy to deal with and for shipping the rifle in a very secure manner (as I've had a problem with CP tearing open my gun packages in the past.. most likely accidentally because they're not careful).

The gun is in a very nice shape, the bore, bolt face and chambers showing very little use. No visible pitting anywhere inside the mechanism either and headspace seems (visually) very tight, so my guess is that the gun will be a good & safe shooter. It is also in an all-original condition and was very tough to clean inside - it was full of some rusty-colored substance and grit, most likely some old cosmoline or maybe yak grease? At first, I thought it was rust... but nope, it would scrub right off, although it needed to be soaked in penetrating oil first. I managed to give it a good overall cleaning, without over-cleaning it (as I didn't want to damage the patina). The gun is complete (all numbers match on various parts) and is only missing the front sling attachment, which should be easy to replace or replicate. Anyway, here she is:

NCO type bayonet (sorry for the poor quality pics, but my camera sucks):

Here's something interesting. I took the gun apart for throughout cleaning and found this inside the bolt, right before the striker spring (the striker spring is complete by the way, so this has been added on and is not a portion of the original spring). So, it seems like they were into temporary fixes at Enfield back in the day (lol!), as I think this was their way of reinforcing a weaker spring. Simple, yet quite ingenious :

So, what do you guys think about these guns? Opinions and/or comments welcome!

Also, if anyone can tell me where I could get a set of Lee dies for a 577/450 and perhaps a bullet mold (or some good cast bullets), I would be very grateful. I got 2 "Kynoch" rounds with the gun, but don't want to fire those, as they have much more value unfired (obviously). I want to make some rounds for it, but need to track down the needed equipment first.

Thanks for looking!

 

[john@]

Your cocking indicator is rotated 90 degrees clockwise, it should point strait up. have a look at http://www.martinihenry.com for pics and also instructions as to how to field strip and reassemble correctly.

 

[762mm]

Your cocking indicator is rotated 90 degrees clockwise, it should point strait up. have a look at http://www.martinihenry.com for pics and also instructions as to how to field strip and reassemble correctly.

Thanks for the link and for pointing that out. I viewed the website in question already and that's where I learned how to take it apart & put it back together (some Youtube videos also helped, lol). From what I've seen around on the net (and in the movie 'Zulu'), the cocking indicator can be placed in different positions... I've tried a few on mine and this is the one that seems to make most sense to me. Since the cocking indicator can be placed in 4 different positions without impeding actual functionality of the firearm, I guess it is all up to the owner's preference.

Take a look at this pic (from the Martini-Henry site) and notice the cocking indicators on the two bottom rifles:

http://www.martinihenry.com/readersrifles/Pages/13.html


Edit: Ok, after viewing some more pictures, I'd say that the general trend leans towards having them in the vertical position when not cocked. I guess I'll pull the indicator pin and replace it vertically to give it a more official appearance, although it's only a cosmetic touch-up (should take 10 seconds to do). Thank goodness these guns are so easy to take apart & play with, lol!

 

[41 Colt]

Cool. I'm getting my first antique rifle shortly too.

 

[762mm]

Cool. I'm getting my first antique rifle shortly too.

It's my second. The other ones are a German Mauser M71 in .43 Mauser caliber (a bit easier to reload, mainly because dies are more common). Antique handguns are nice to have, but serious business on a battlefield can only be accomplished with a rifle... After all, let's not forget the famous quote:

"A handgun is for fighting your way to your rifle, which you shouldn't have put down in the first place" - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch.




Edit: I've put the cocking indicator back to the 12 o'clock vertical position. Took about 10 seconds, as only 1 screw needs to be slightly moved for the entire pin to come out. Amazing how simple, yet effective the construction is on these things - I should've bought one of them Martinis to play with a long ago, lol (I just love innovative firearm designs, especially if they're old and forgotten by most). I say this because guns that are built on the "KISS" principle and with the minimum amount of mechanical parts, such as this one, are truly my favorite kind (kiss: "keep it simple, stupid"). Two thick pins and one screw literally hold the entire firing assembly together on this mini cannon... Neat!

 

[Musketfire]

Excellent rifle!

Im sure it will give you and yours many years of faithful service!

I just love mine and it has really helped me learn about hand loading.

All she asks of you is that you KEEP HER CLEAN!

 

[biggles]

Martini Henry

762mm congratulations & a good job you got it when you did....I was looking at it for a few weeks hoping my tax return would be big enough...oh well maybe next time.

Brass is available from Ellwood Epps & they have the Lee 577.450 dies too.

Bullets are a bit harder to find. Casting your own is looking to be the way most guys go but for those of us who cannot (I live in a condo) it is a hard bullet to find. Ben Hunchak is retiring & the guy who supplied Epps has also retired. Just keep looking & if you find some available commercially please let me know (PM me) & I will do the same for you.

If you look here: http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/directory you will find they have a Martini Henry forum with huge amounts of information.

Have fun with it.

Peter (Burlington, Ontario)

 

[Smokepole]

I have a very similliar rifle. PM me for bullets for the Martini.

 

[762mm]

Thanks for the input, guys!

Now that I think about it, if I'm going to shoot it, I believe it would be best to give it an electrolysis bath in order to remove any surface oxidation without harming the actual remaining finish underneath. I know that some guys would make death threats to anyone suggesting that, but I seriously believe that this would preserve the gun even better. A detailed write up on electrolysis can be found here:

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=62728&start=0

I guess I might give it some serious thought in a few weeks, when I have more free time.


In the meantime, does anyone have any good smokeless load suggestions? I read somewhere that the company who makes Trail Boss apparently suggests 12 gr of it for a 400 gr bullet. Some have tested it and report that it gives a pretty good accuracy and approx. 800 fps.

Thoughts?

Edit: a little search revealed this...

From: ian spruce, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your question about smokeless loads for the .577/450 Martini Henry
rang a distant bell in my cluttered brain and I recalled an article from
'Handloader Magazine' some time ago. A guy named Jim Jukes wrote a
comprehensive piece detailing a large variety of smokeless powders
suitable for bullet weights from 400 through to 500 gns.
After having dug out the article it seems that most of the Martini
Henry barrels slug out at .456/.457 with a twist of 22" or 33". This
suggests that an unpatched 45/70 bullet would be suitable.
The paper patched bullets made by Kynock until the plant closed in
the sixties measured .472 over the patch and .462 without the patch. The
writer indicates that versatility of the Henry polygonal seven or nine
groove rifling is capable of handling such a wide spread of diameters.
It is also stated as very important to roll TWO sheets of toilet
tissue into a ball and stuff this on top of the charge thus reducing
case space.
A few examples of recommended loads are as follows, with 400gn
bullet 16gns of Unique/Green Dot/Red dot (around 1,100fps). With a 475
gn bullet, 19gns Blue Dot (1,075fps), 22gns Blue Dot (1,220fps). With a
500 gn bullet there appears to be a degree of unreliable ignition
creeping into the test firings with only IMR 3031 (45gns) giving 1,582
fps and IMR 4759 (27gns) giving 1,170fps being the most reliable.
As you must appreciate these figures appeared in an American
Magazine some time ago and as such are for your academic study only. It
is certainly illegal to use nitro in a BP only proofed rifle.

Regards,

Ian McLean-Spruce

 

[woodchopper]

I was looking at that one a while back, I was thinking of buying it but with the kitchen renovation that I'm doing I thought I better wait.

Smokeless loads your going to catch some flack here for suggesting it...



But I've been working with IMR4227 I've decided for now 38grns using a 405grn 45/70 cast bullet with gascheck and a square of toilet paper to fill up the cartridge is working good enough for me.

 

[762mm]

Smokeless loads your going to catch some flack here for suggesting it...



But I've been working with IMR4227 I've decided for now 38grns using a 405grn 45/70 cast bullet with gascheck and a square of toilet paper to fill up the cartridge is working good enough for me.

Yeah, I know... some aren't too keen on smokeless loads for BP guns. But so far, I've had a good experience with smokeless in my antique six shooters. So, a rifle shouldn't be much different if a good load is used. Case size can be reduced with toilet paper, as you suggest.

 

[woodchopper]

Yeah, I know... some aren't too keen on smokeless loads for BP guns. But so far, I've had a good experience with smokeless in my antique six shooters. So, a rifle shouldn't be much different if a good load is used. Case size can be reduced with toilet paper, as you suggest.

with the 577/450 the case size is an issue, I have heard that trailboss has a faster burn rate, so I went with a slower powder. I tried with some of the slower IMR powders 4381 and 4??? I can't remember now but they were not burning clean. So with a bit of searching and research and some help from other gunnuts I started using 4227 with fairly good results.

in my loads 38grns is not showing any signs of over preasure and the info I was given by quickload is that I'm nowhere near max.

 

[smellie]

This F^&%#**(&$# v-Bulletin thing just ATE my bloody post!

AGAIN!

SR-4759 is your powder. 38 percent of Black by weight. You'll need TP: case is huge.

Charge was 85 grains Black RFG-2. Muzzle velocity was 1350 with a 480.

You can make Snider brass out of 24-bore. MAGTECH, Brazil, handled by Cabela's. New store in WPG sez they get anything in Yank catalog.

LEE dies are the BIG thread. Need Rockchucker or similar.

FIOCCHI makes 24-bore in plastic. I am using for Snider. Possibility? Martini case 2.34", 24 is 2.5".

I quit!

Somebody should smarten up that cretinous &^%&#$%^& v-Bulletin before somebody gets REALLY ticked.

I'm off to Milsurp.

 

[john@]

Anyone ever try light loads with a .40 cal pistol bullet in a sabot?

Edit, never mind, I'll ask in a new thread.