My rant,supplemental tags,sunday hunting and poachers

icehunter121

icehunter121

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
150   0   0
Location
Alberta
K so this is my rant for today. An this is my personal opinion as being directly involved with a outfitter and hunters.

Supplemental tags. What a great way to clean out a healthy and strong deer population so that the car insurance companies quit #####ing.A bout 5 years ago we had heard from a insurance broker that they wanted some areas of deer cleaned out to like 1 per square mile or less because the claims were to big for insurances costs.I am a full time autobody tech by trade and 70% of our fall work is deer claims till the winter starts and it keeps us in business.

So about 4 years ago they opened it up to sunday hunting. Great for guys coming out from edmonton to have 2 days of hunting instead of one and it helped out the local motels,restaurants etc etc.Deer pop. took it a little harder but still lots of good bucks around and the outfitter was doing good.

3 years ago,still doing good but now supp tags were opened and you could get 5 tags for one zone.Not much of a change yet but last year a dramatic drop in the amount of good heads taken and every one was having a tough time seeing deer. But there was sure a lot of gut piles around to prove that ppl were looking for deer meat and the population was dropping drastically and so was our business.Normally I would cape 20 deer or so for the outfitter and last year it was slowing down,only 13 in November and I said this year was going to be worse..yup I was right. Only did 5 heads all season and every one out here is saying that there is no more deer left.On top of that they extended the season in some zones to Dec 20th also.

All the local hunters are having a tough time finding a deer let alone a trophy quality buck,doe pop has taken a real s**t kicking and a lot of the zones east of Edmonton are shot out and hit so friggen hard that there are no deer left.An we were told right by fish and wildlife that this was all caused by the insurance companies wanting the population to get cleaned out so they didnt have to pay out more deer claims out here .WEll its working but at the same time they are forcing businesses to close there doors because of no work

AS for poachers...1 zone to the southeast of me( I live right in the junction of 4 connecting zones and 2 major highways) ...well guess what...in that zone in novembber in the first 2 weeks 40 deer were found shot and the heads cut off and the rest left to rot.Now get this,that was 40 deer all off one secondary road and only in a 12 mile length by about 1 mile wide.An thats just what was found. Fish cops figure they have the kid that is doing it but the investigation still continues. 2 weeks ago another hunter reported a total of 7 deer in a different zone that the heads were cut off.

An last week 2 elk that one of our guides had seen and videotaped them in a pasture laying there suffered the same demise.Yes we have elk out here and even a season starting but they are few and very far between. No great herds of them. Yup you guessed it..2 bulls shot(Poached) and the heads cut off. Fish cops have been hammering this area hard and its great to see and all of us are working with them to get a end to this bulls**t out here.

So that is my rant. So any one that wants to hunt east of Edmonton Alberta,be aware that these areas are shot out,basically no real deer population any more and what is left the poachers are taking care of.An as for me as being directly related to it by 1 trade and working in the outfitting side of things,I have seen the definate impact of it and also we have felt it in the ol pocket book.Once again this is my opinion...

Edit to add...the way I am judging this is how many deer I would cape in a normal nov1 to nov 30 season( about20) as compared tohow many I cape now in the month of november alone but dealing with a extended season.Normally 20 in november but now down to 5. Whats next year look like?? Maybe 2?? And I have been caping for just about 20 years now so have quite a bit of experience to go on.
 
Far as the tags, I blame acereages, and F&G budget cuts. My land's in the E end of 112; if you look it goes all the way to the road S of Coaldale. Apparently tons of deer around the massive amounts of acerages S and E of Coaldale.....you guessed it, acerage owners #####, tags are issued, acerage owners don't allow hunting, hunters come to the E end of the zone, the small herd of deer that lived around our place is, quite simply, wiped out. The only deer we see anymore are those pushed out of other areas by htg pressure about mid Nov.
If F&G had better budgets for game counts I suspect tag numbers would be much different. (incidentally it appears there was a pretty bad winter kill in 102 last yr as well, at least that's my, and every rancher I talked to's take)

Far as poachers, well let's just say I put them in the same category as rustlers. Myself, I've never been a horn hunter, I honestly don't know what a 200, or 300 buck/bull even means in terms of size, and I've hunted well over 35 yrs. Don't get me wrong, I like a nice set of horns; to me nice is symmetrical, and on a healthy good sized animal. That being said, I have a friend who's a taxidermist, and I know he needs all the tag info, etc to take a set of horns in, so I doubt those missing heads are going to a taxidermist.
Would there be some kind of a black market for the horns, and that's why they're taken?
Myself, I won't hunt within a 3 hr drive of Calgary or Edmonton. Been there, got the T shirt. Take that as you please.
 
I'll agree with you on the poachers but 100% disagree with you on the supps and Sunday hunting. Sunday hunting opened up more opportunities for those of us who are forced to work a Mon-Fri schedule. That might mean more pressure, but I think making the opportunities a little more fair for everyone is adequate compensation.

The supp tags, if used properly by hunters, should strengthen the herd. If guys would restrict themselves to shooting the yearling fawns and not the mature does, the population would likely not change much from year to year. Supp tags also can have the effect of lowering the buck to doe ratio and that forces the bucks to chase more move about during the day more often. I'm not seeing less bucks but simply less bucks during the day. All the big ones are nearly exclusively nocturnal. But then my little area seems to have about 6 mature does for every big, mature buck -- so the buck don't have to go anywhere during the day. Some nights I was getting more than 1,000 pictures off of a single trail cam -- yet to hunt the same area in daylight you were seeing nothing -- not even does and fawns.

So this year we shot fawns for our supps, and my wife took out a mutant spike/fork thing. Reduced the herd by five (6 if you count the nice buck my buddy took without permission). Out of the other 3 big mature bucks, only one succumbed to the season (maybe) as the other 2 have shown up on camera since the close of the season with about 4 other bucks that will be nice ones next year. Lots of deer around. I think the extra pressure is just making them a little more nocturnal than we're used to. But I guess different locations can be experiencing different effects.

I am within the Calgary hunters' range of operations and do understand the rodeo that is happening on weekends. 20 guys hit the quarter to the south of me that last Saturday and it took until the last day of the season for deer to start filtering back into the area after that gong show (how someone wasn't shot by that pumpkin patrol is more good luck than good management). I sent the wife and kids away for the afternoon to keep them from catching a stray bullet.
 
Ice: I don't know about your theory that East of Edmonton is shot out. I drive through there quite regularly and there are tonnes of animals in there. It got to the point that I won't drive to Edmonton anymore in the dark - too high a risk of hitting an animal (My friend's GF wrecked her front end on a deer a month ago) I have seen the weirdest things too during my drives - Moose in a desert (Semi-arid) background, Antelope, Elk and plenty of deer. If the herd by your place is shot out, another herd will just move in from an overpopulated area (WMU). I am in the 100s for WMUs now - I primarily hunted the 300s and with all the crazy regs here (Hunting only on Wed-Sat/No Sups/Whitetail Buck only, everything else on draw) the population is right out of control and the hunting pressures are huge on the 4 days that the season is open on the whitetail bucks. I watched my bud shoot a doe out of a herd of 25 does and the others stayed and watched us clean the doe he shot. There wasn't any pressure on them to run away. The funny thing was that I saw in 6 hrs hunting more hunters then I will see all weekend in the 300 WMU I hunt but they were all after whitetail bucks. The only bucks I saw were 2 little ones. I find that I always see trophy animals either out of season or when I am hunting for something else. Every part of the province has different regs but I am sure as the year progresses it balances out.
 
Glock4ever said:
Ice: I don't know about your theory that East of Edmonton is shot out. I drive through there quite regularly and there are tonnes of animals in there. It got to the point that I won't drive to Edmonton anymore in the dark - too high a risk of hitting an animal (My friend's GF wrecked her front end on a deer a month ago) I have seen the weirdest things too during my drives - Moose in a desert (Semi-arid) background, Antelope, Elk and plenty of deer. If the herd by your place is shot out, another herd will just move in from an overpopulated area (WMU). I am in the 100s for WMUs now - I primarily hunted the 300s and with all the crazy regs here (Hunting only on Wed-Sat/No Sups/Whitetail Buck only, everything else on draw) the population is right out of control and the hunting pressures are huge on the 4 days that the season is open on the whitetail bucks. I watched my bud shoot a doe out of a herd of 25 does and the others stayed and watched us clean the doe he shot. There wasn't any pressure on them to run away. The funny thing was that I saw in 6 hrs hunting more hunters then I will see all weekend in the 300 WMU I hunt but they were all after whitetail bucks. The only bucks I saw were 2 little ones. I find that I always see trophy animals either out of season or when I am hunting for something else. Every part of the province has different regs but I am sure as the year progresses it balances out.
Click to expand...

I am in the 200 zones and its quite different here.At least where I am at.
 
I see no drop in any populations at all. The last 5 years has been better and better every year and I've never taken so many large animals and big racks as I have in the last 5. Last year, my favorite taxidermist had stop taking on any more mounts due to the fact that he could not promise a delivery date within a calender year. He did the cape for me, but I mounted the animal myself. This year is the same as the last.

Your observations are completely opposite of mine, but I'm not saying the places where I go hunting.
 
sjemac said:
I'll agree with you on the poachers but 100% disagree with you on the supps and Sunday hunting. Sunday hunting opened up more opportunities for those of us who are forced to work a Mon-Fri schedule. That might mean more pressure, but I think making the opportunities a little more fair for everyone is adequate compensation.

The supp tags, if used properly by hunters, should strengthen the herd. If guys would restrict themselves to shooting the yearling fawns and not the mature does, the population would likely not change much from year to year. Supp tags also can have the effect of lowering the buck to doe ratio and that forces the bucks to chase more move about during the day more often. I'm not seeing less bucks but simply less bucks during the day. All the big ones are nearly exclusively nocturnal. But then my little area seems to have about 6 mature does for every big, mature buck -- so the buck don't have to go anywhere during the day. Some nights I was getting more than 1,000 pictures off of a single trail cam -- yet to hunt the same area in daylight you were seeing nothing -- not even does and fawns.

So this year we shot fawns for our supps, and my wife took out a mutant spike/fork thing. Reduced the herd by five (6 if you count the nice buck my buddy took without permission). Out of the other 3 big mature bucks, only one succumbed to the season (maybe) as the other 2 have shown up on camera since the close of the season with about 4 other bucks that will be nice ones next year. Lots of deer around. I think the extra pressure is just making them a little more nocturnal than we're used to. But I guess different locations can be experiencing different effects.

I am within the Calgary hunters' range of operations and do understand the rodeo that is happening on weekends. 20 guys hit the quarter to the south of me that last Saturday and it took until the last day of the season for deer to start filtering back into the area after that gong show (how someone wasn't shot by that pumpkin patrol is more good luck than good management). I sent the wife and kids away for the afternoon to keep them from catching a stray bullet.
Click to expand...

I agree with the sunday hunting for ppl stuck in a larger centre. It gives a better hunting opportunity for them to tag out. But what is happening out here is that and I have seen this in esso in the morning. 4 guys get out of a truck and buy 5 tags each. Count 20 deer gone,say 100 guys show up from a larger centre cause they heard the hunting is good out here and now you have 500 open tags. next weekend now you have the same thing and now 1000 tags sold and open. Clears out deer real fast cause anything that moves gets shot. Ppl are just looking for the meat and not thinking that by shooting 5 deer in one year just foryourself that you are effectively killing off future deer hunting oppurtunities not just for yourself but for new and upcoming hunters.

Past deer trails in the snow were covered by fresh snow just over a week ago...now there are no fresh tracks on that trail...gotta tell ya something...
 
fiddler said:
I see no drop in any populations at all. The last 5 years has been better and better every year and I've never taken so many large animals and big racks as I have in the last 5. Last year, my favorite taxidermist had stop taking on any more mounts due to the fact that he could not promise a delivery date within a calender year. He did the cape for me, but I mounted the animal myself. This year is the same as the last.

Your observations are completely opposite of mine, but I'm not saying the places where I go hunting.
Click to expand...

That is your observation as to where you hunt....but this is mine as to where I live and deal with it every year.An I dont blame you as to not saying where you hunt,this was but merely a rant to start a topic on some problems that are happening and how every one sees it from there own theory.I have no idea what a big buck is to you but here it would be a 180+ whitetail and a 200 + mulie. The biggest whitey yet I have seen is a 150 buck and that was gross score. Net he might make in the 140's and that would be generous
 
Last edited:
Pudelpointer said:
Ice, it sounds like you are in the CWD zones. SRD appears to be bound and determined to destroy all ungulate herds in the eastern 1/3 of the province.

Might be time to move.
Click to expand...

Yup I can drive 1 minute from town and in one of those CWD zones.Right from here to the sask border is totally wide open. And the border is at least a hour from me.It first appeared as CWD but then with some culls all these tags were opened up.So why was that when they only found a few cases of CWD? An why was ins companies telling us years ago that they wanted all the deer shot and fish and wild life is telling us that it was the ins companies.

Seems like it was to try and place the blame elsewhere then quietly open up the whole population to get shot out...and that is exactly what is happening.I havent hunted deer in about 10 years now so these are my observations from a side liner. I never trophy hunted in my life but went for the meat and the sport of it. But when you really look at it...what family really needs 5 deer to live on.? There gets to being a point of getting meat and providing,but it also gets to the point of trying to look ,like a macho hunter and providing for say the wifes parents,kids etc etc. I thought hunting was about hunting and not just going out a filling 5 tags for the simple pleasure of looking like some kind of hero.

An if i may I will say one thing,next year will be even worse.Once again this is my opinion...but if hunting is supposed to continue in the future this other crap has to stop now. Otherwise deer hunting will go the way of the dino's and your grand kids will grow up dreaming about hunting deer,but there wont be any left in Alberta to hunt.An for you folks that dont have supp tags and even Sunday hunting...if this proves to work as it has been doing,you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be the same in a zone near you...then you can look at the lost hunting opportunities and go holy ####...yup its happening...
 
I hate supplemental doe tags. Up in this country the deer have a hard enough time surviving the deep snow, wolves etc without MEAT hunters dumping does.

All we need, it's happened in the recent past, is one tough winter and 70% of the herd can be killed off. We got off extremely lucky, weater-wise with the winter of 2009-10, which brought the deer herd back up in numbers.
Hopefuly we get another good winter for the deer herd this year.

Anyway, I hate the killing of does for sausage meat.

Back to the original point, seems like somebody musta been poaching your deer/elk for profit. Can't wait to hear more info on that case. ####ers!!
 
Ice: The area I drive through is N on Hwy 36 W on Hwy 14. Are you not up in around Wx, Viking, etc? (200 series?) Anyway, on some of the back roads (I try all sorts of shortcuts to Edmonton) I see piles of animals. I recall driving by Paint Earth Mine (I think it is a mine I have never stopped and checked) and there must have been at least 100 whitetail running around there. It was crazy. Just to give you perspective - I was driving through the 200 series to Edmonton 3x in the dark and every single time I barely missed a deer. After the third time I called it quits that was 2008-2009. I warned off my friend not to do it and sure enough his girlfriend hit a deer on the second time she came down to Med Hat for a visit. If you are saying your area is hunted out, I believe you but with all the animals I am seeing I am sure it won't be long before they start coming back into your area. I was talking to a CO at Cooking Lake and he told me that the Whitetail deer pop is so large that it is pushing out the Mulies and it is at the point where they have to do something about it as F&G was concerned for the mulie population.
 
Demonical said:
I hate supplemental doe tags. Up in this country the deer have a hard enough time surviving the deep snow, wolves etc without MEAT hunters dumping does.
Click to expand...


I don't know what you guys are talking about? There is more Whitetail deer than Black fllies. One of several places that we regularly hunt is not far from Whitecourt. The place is LOADED with deer. We took several very large bucks this year, two of which were book deer. I had to ration my tags so they would last for the duration of hunting season. Several times I could have tagged out all on the same weekend. Very few of us have tags left, including moose and elk.

You guys need to find alternate hunting spots. Places evolve. No spot is good forever.
 
fiddler said:
I don't know what you guys are talking about? There is more Whitetail deer than Black fllies. One of several places that we regularly hunt is not far from Whitecourt. The place is LOADED with deer. We took several very large bucks this year, two of which were book deer. I had to ration my tags so they would last for the duration of hunting season. Several times I could have tagged out all on the same weekend. Very few of us have tags left, including moose and elk.

You guys need to find alternate hunting spots. Places evolve. No spot is good forever.
Click to expand...

You are talking west of Edmonton,I am talking about east of edmonton.It would be great if for about 3 years or so that every one would go west for hunting. It would ease up on the pressure out here and hopefully we could get a decent deer population going again with out having them shot to #### every year. The only good thing that could happen out here is that if every farmer posted there land as to no hunting the deer might have a chance.

In 2 years of all these tags being opened up,the pop has dropped so much already. What will it be like next year? Its hey great and fine if you live in Edmonton,but Whitecourt is 4 hours from me,so lets try this. For anyone from here to drive for 4 hours to shoot a whitetail is out of the question.but yet its alright for some one who is more central to drive 1.5 hours and shoot the living #### out of everything then move on? Is it cause once this area is shot out we can just move to the next one and do the same thing??
 
Hunting is not all about how big the deer are. If that's what drives you, then fine.

I think about wildlife management, table fare, tradition etc. So I like the sups.
 
Demonical said:
^ Hey, I hunt the remote country, I never hunt in any of the farm zones around Whitecourt.
Click to expand...


Thats kinda what I was thinkin. I don't hunt from my truck or on cultivated land. However, four miles from the nearest road and all its road hunters, the bush is loaded. I'd be rich if I got paid a buck for every time some guy in a truck tells me he hasn't seen a thing all day. I also love the ATV restrictions where no machines can run before noon during big game season. The forest is mine alone till noon everyday.
 
RoscoeT said:
Hunting is not all about how big the deer are. If that's what drives you, then fine.

I think about wildlife management, table fare, tradition etc. So I like the sups.
Click to expand...

wildlife management,,,,yup we managed to shoot that zone or 4 out,table fare,yup the table is fair game to chew on if you are hungry enuff,tradition,,well lots of years ago we couuld take a drive and see all sorts of deer,but tradition took care of that many years ago,now we just talk about it.Still think the sups are great??
 
fiddler said:
Thats kinda what I was thinkin. I don't hunt from my truck or on cultivated land. However, four miles from the nearest road and all its road hunters, the bush is loaded. I'd be rich if I got paid a buck for every time some guy in a truck tells me he hasn't seen a thing all day. I also love the ATV restrictions where no machines can run before noon during big game season. The forest is mine alone till noon everyday.
Click to expand...

out here we have roads that we call 97st,Jasper av etc etc...it would be great to be able to go back in 4 miles and never see any one. But with each section running 1 x2 miles and a road intersecting everything,those days are long gone .
 
icehunter121 said:
wildlife management,,,,yup we managed to shoot that zone or 4 out,table fare,yup the table is fair game to chew on if you are hungry enuff,tradition,,well lots of years ago we couuld take a drive and see all sorts of deer,but tradition took care of that many years ago,now we just talk about it.Still think the sups are great??
Click to expand...

For our areas they seem to be fine. For your areas and your purposes they aren't. If, as you say, your zones have 97th ST and Jasper in them, then the supps are serving a bigger purpose than helping your hunting. They are taking numbers down to reduce human-deer conflicts.

You started this thread off as a rant that was directed Alberta wide and then as we started to chime in with differing opinions you narrowed the focus to just a few zones east of Edmonton. In my zone the hunting is fine and the supps are not a big issue. Not the best ever nor the worst. In you zone they may be a problem. I don't know. But if your want rules changed then make sure you speak only for the areas you hunt and not those of hunters in zones you do not frequent.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom