My T97NSR with handguard RIS installed

1leggeddog said:
Perhaps, but this still is about a 1/3 of the initial price of the rifle, no matter how you spin it or justify it.

I know they are a business and need to make a profit on this to make this thing work but imho, this is simply too much.

Now, if i was an importer and were to make a package deal of a T97 with this FTU sold as one, for say.. 1200, then we may have something.

But hey, call me a cheapskate if you must. Or keep going after my lack of production/manufacturing experience. In the end im just a consumer with a limited budget.
Click to expand...

Budget is simply a set amount of money over a set period of time. Increase the period of time, or increase the amount of money by adjusting your PRIORITIES and the problem solves itself.

I have an $1100 optic setup on my $1500 AR, does that mean its over priced, or am I simply investing in quality gear? Comparing the price of accessories to the platform it will be used on is asinine. There is zero logical connection between the two. I thought a "budget oriented" rifle like the 97 was a benefit, in that one could take the coin saved on the rifle and invest it into accessories???

TDC
 
300$ for the FTU isn't overpriced IMO, especially when the other "rail attachment" in earlier posts was about the same price. Personally I think the rifle is about 500$ over priced to begin with. Most other Norinco firearms are in the 3-500$ range and this one should be there as well. With all the issues people are having with it as an 1100$ gun that is unacceptable. I think at 1/3 the price of the gun the FTU drastically improves the hideous look of the gun and the optic choice. Look at the Norinco M305 for example, a 400$ gun and MANY people put an aftermarket chassis on it.. most of which end up costing at least 1000$ after you are said and done. I think the problem just boils down to the gun being about 50% over priced to begin with.
 
mg4201 said:
At half the current price the T97 would be an incredible seller. Even at 600 it would sell out fast.
Click to expand...

I agree, but I dont think it is worth more currently. The only reason that it is currently selling so well I believe is because there is just no competition. The Tavor is 2.5x more, and thats all there is that's similar. Also it's been a while since Canada has had a new non restricted firearm so people are just itching to get their hands on something new and bull-pups are just uncharted territory for most.

The fact that it's selling to me does not justify that it is worth that much, Beowolf mags for example are not worth 150$+ but they are selling because they are new to most and offer something that they currently don't have. Honestly if this gun didn't have horrible ergonomics, wasn't hideous looking, and wasn't ridden with quality control issues it could be arguable that it was worth around 900$. But as long as people are buying it at 1100$ I guess many will say that it is worth that much.
 
Last edited:
Matty308 said:
I agree, but I dont think it is worth more currently. The only reason that it is currently selling so well I believe is because there is just no competition. The Tavor is 2.5x more, and thats all there is that's similar. Also it's been a while since Canada has had a new non restricted firearm so people are just itching to get their hands on something new and bull-pups are just uncharted territory for most.

The fact that it's selling to me does not justify that it is worth that much, Beowolf mags for example are not worth 150$+ but they are selling because they are new to most and offer something that they currently don't have. Honestly if this gun didn't have horrible ergonomics, wasn't hideous looking, and wasn't ridden with quality control issues it could be arguable that it was worth around 900$. But as long as people are buying it at 1100$ I guess many will say that it is worth that much.
Click to expand...

Spot on sir!

Tdc
 
Good god. Some of you guys are worse than the Liberals. If the rifle or the FTU is too pricey, shut your traps and don't buy it. Nobody really cares what you think about a product you have never used.
 
Blastattack said:
Good god. Some of you guys are worse than the Liberals. If the rifle or the FTU is too pricey, shut your traps and don't buy it. Nobody really cares what you think about a product you have never used.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you have a problem with freedom of speach? Here's one, if you don't like what some of us have to say, be an adult and ignore it. I don't mean being a child and using the ignore button either.
 
I'm not sure why people come in a T97 thread and just rain on every owner's parade. The T97 is acutally one of the better made (fit and finish) Norinco guns available right now, and that's just from 20 minutes of shooting and handling it at the range (rifle's not even mine, just a club member that bought it the day it came out). It's not "high-end" per se, but I don't think Norinco or anyone else ever claimed it to be. The pricing structure is simple - Tavor and other NR .223 rifles are all in the $2500+ range, so why sell the T97 at $500 when you can sell it at $1000, and STILL be less than 1/2 of the competition? Once CanadaAmmo gets theirs out at $850 I"m sure the market will adjust. Throw on M14.ca's rail top and you're still at less than $1200.

Heck, I don't have one and don't plan on buying one and even I'm getting annoyed at all the ####-throwing from people that don't own it or probably haven't even seen one yet. But oh well, free speech and an open forum. It is what it is.
 
Bonjour43ma said:
I'm not sure why people come in a T97 thread and just rain on every owner's parade. The T97 is acutally one of the better made (fit and finish) Norinco guns available right now, and that's just from 20 minutes of shooting and handling it at the range (rifle's not even mine, just a club member that bought it the day it came out). It's not "high-end" per se, but I don't think Norinco or anyone else ever claimed it to be. The pricing structure is simple - Tavor and other NR .223 rifles are all in the $2500+ range, so why sell the T97 at $500 when you can sell it at $1000, and STILL be less than 1/2 of the competition? Once CanadaAmmo gets theirs out at $850 I"m sure the market will adjust. Throw on M14.ca's rail top and you're still at less than $1200.

Heck, I don't have one and don't plan on buying one and even I'm getting annoyed at all the ####-throwing from people that don't own it or probably haven't even seen one yet. But oh well, free speech and an open forum. It is what it is.
Click to expand...

Charging a grand for a low end piece of junk like a 97 simply because the closest competition is $2600 bucks is about as shady and low as it gets.

With regards to the negative posts. I believe it stems from the endless mental masturbation that is coming from the pro 97 camp about how "awesome" it is, and how its not poorly designed and built. What you and others see as negative, the rest of us who aren't emotionally invested see as facts. Cold hard and often negative facts. This "raining on 97 owners' parade" is neither my intent nor my problem. I'm here to expose the truth about the quality and design of this firearm, so that those new to the discipline can make their own decisions based on facts.

Tdc
 
I didn't read evey post that you had posted, TdC, but can you tell me why you feel that it is a low end piece of junk?

I respect everyone's opinion because hey, that's yours to have, but shoving down opinions disguised as "facts" into people's throats as absolute "truth" is what I find disingenuous about some of the posts in here.

I do agree that some t97 owners need to take off the Rose tinted glass but hey, they're happy so all the power to them, no?
 
I didnt mean to rain on anybodies parade, I was actually saying that the FTU is worth the 300$ as it is quality built and improves the look of the gun quite a bit. I just dont think that the gun itself is worth 1100$ in its current condition. Everyone has their own opinion though, and some people probably think that the T97 is a nice looking gun. If I found the gun appealing to look at, I could probably get used to the ergos and justify the price, but it's hideous to me so it wont be possible. If the gun was alot cheaper I would probably jump on it just to have another toy to take out though.
 
M14.CA said:
Yes to first question. Yes to second question. Planning stage right now. There are 9 specific features that a new Lower will offer from T97.ca. This part is not ready for an open forum discussion, however, keep in mind, the FTU will be 100% compatible with any new Lower we design.
Click to expand...

That's awesome man. Thanks for the response, look forward to seeing it. I love my t97, and this stuff could take it up a notch.
 
Bonjour43ma said:
I didn't read evey post that you had posted, TdC, but can you tell me why you feel that it is a low end piece of junk?

I respect everyone's opinion because hey, that's yours to have, but shoving down opinions disguised as "facts" into people's throats as absolute "truth" is what I find disingenuous about some of the posts in here.

I do agree that some t97 owners need to take off the Rose tinted glass but hey, they're happy so all the power to them, no?
Click to expand...


Its a long standing FACT, that Norinco products are far from reliable, well built, or overly accurate. There is no end to Norc threads about failures, breakages or poor performance. You get what you pay for, and you don't pay much for a Norc. Look around, anyone who shoots a lot, doesn't run a Norc. I have never seen a Norc at a match or a course that didn't sh*t the bed, and I mean needing parts not a common stoppage. For the 100 rounds a year shooter a norc is great. If you expect your gear to work and work for any length of time under any amount of significant use, don't buy a Norc.

The 97 out of the box wouldn't run with some mags, and some guns would run with similar mags. Feed ramps are non existent, and now the common problem with this new gun is the gas port drilling issue. What surprises me, are the number of Norc fanboys who are not super pissed that their $1100 rifle was assembled by a dyslexic one eyed 9 year old in the dark with a hand drill. Apparently paying that kind of money for flaws and non functional guns is acceptable.... So long as the name says Norinco. Lots of whining and b*tching about CSA guns breaking bolts and they cost less, and would run for a while before they failed. CSA is solving the problem, Norinco is not. And yet, still no massive rant and witch hunt for Norinco, this baffles me.

TDC
 
Last edited:
TDC said:
Its a long standing FACT, that Norinco products are far from reliable, well built, or overly accurate. There is no end to Norc threads about failures, breakages or poor performance. You get what you pay for, and you don't pay much for a Norc. Look around, anyone who shoots a lot, doesn't run a Norc. I have never seen a Norc at a match or a course that didn't sh*t the bed, and I mean needing parts not a common stoppage. For the 100 rounds a year shooter a norc is great. If you expect your gear to work and work for any length of time under any amount of significant use, don't buy a Norc.

The 97 out of the box wouldn't run with some mags, and some guns would run with similar mags. Feed ramps are non existent, and now the common problem with this new gun is the gas port drilling issue. What surprises me, are the number of Norc fanboys who are not super pissed that their $1100 rifle was assembled by a dyslexic one eyed 9 year old in the dark with a hand drill. Apparently paying that kind of money for flaws and non functional guns is acceptable.... So long as the name says Norinco. Lots of whining and b*tching about CSA guns breaking bolts and they cost less, and would run for a while before they failed. CSA is solving the problem, Norinco is not. And yet, still no massive rant and witch hunt for Norinco, this baffles me.

TDC
Click to expand...


He has a point.
 
K1ng C said:
He has a point.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Norinco makes a good product. their AR's for example are better than some domestically produced rifles. The m305 product is as good as any made in the US. The 1911 product line is outstanding and well thought of by Wilson combat owner Bill Wilson. My np30 has been a flawless performer for me. I have put thousands of rounds through it without a single failure that was the fault of the pistol (squibs). My gunsmith shoots an np30 in IPSC matches every single week and has no complaints. My jw15 has been totally reliable and quite accurate considering the heavy trigger ( only about 600 rounds through this rifle). It likes blazers and dynas. My norinco SKS has been totally reliable and a deadly deer rifle (with softpoint ammo of course). I own three of norinco's products and would buy a t97 without hesitation.
 
mg4201 said:
I disagree. Norinco makes a good product. their AR's for example are better than some domestically produced rifles. The m305 product is as good as any made in the US. The 1911 product line is outstanding and well thought of by Wilson combat owner Bill Wilson. My np30 has been a flawless performer for me. I have put thousands of rounds through it without a single failure that was the fault of the pistol (squibs). My gunsmith shoots an np30 in IPSC matches every single week and has no complaints. My jw15 has been totally reliable and quite accurate considering the heavy trigger ( only about 600 rounds through this rifle). It likes blazers and dynas. My norinco SKS has been totally reliable and a deadly deer rifle (with softpoint ammo of course). I own three of norinco's products and would buy a t97 without hesitation.
Click to expand...

Better than some domestic rifles. You mean NEA and dlask? I would class them as "domestic norcs" and don't recommend them either and for the same reasons. Norc ar's are out of spec to the point where drop in handguards won't fit.

The 305 has a less than stellar reputation, have a read in the battle rifle forum. Lots of failing or failed rifles and the ones that run are over 50% USA parts.

What kind of work has your smith done to his np30? Round count at a match is pathetically low so I wouldn't say its a useful gauge for durability and/or reliability.

The jw15 I believe is a bolt action? its difficult to f@@k up a bolt gun, especially one chambered in .22 rimfire. The cost of the jw15 puts it in savage mk2 territory which is a much better built and better supported system. Regardless, a rimfire bolt gun is hardly solid evidence that norinco produces fine products.

An sks..nothing more needs to be said.

Tdc
 
TDC said:
Its a long standing FACT, that Norinco products are far from reliable, well built, or overly accurate. There is no end to Norc threads about failures, breakages or poor performance. You get what you pay for, and you don't pay much for a Norc. Look around, anyone who shoots a lot, doesn't run a Norc. I have never seen a Norc at a match or a course that didn't sh*t the bed, and I mean needing parts not a common stoppage. For the 100 rounds a year shooter a norc is great. If you expect your gear to work and work for any length of time under any amount of significant use, don't buy a Norc.

The 97 out of the box wouldn't run with some mags, and some guns would run with similar mags. Feed ramps are non existent, and now the common problem with this new gun is the gas port drilling issue. What surprises me, are the number of Norc fanboys who are not super pissed that their $1100 rifle was assembled by a dyslexic one eyed 9 year old in the dark with a hand drill. Apparently paying that kind of money for flaws and non functional guns is acceptable.... So long as the name says Norinco. Lots of whining and b*tching about CSA guns breaking bolts and they cost less, and would run for a while before they failed. CSA is solving the problem, Norinco is not. And yet, still no massive rant and witch hunt for Norinco, this baffles me.

TDC
Click to expand...

And what do you base your facts on, here say and innuendo. Pretty sad when you can tell it how it is when you have not had a lick of experience with "Norinco" or any Chinese product. Just another Internet warrior basing his facts on what some other people say and can't confirm fact or fiction.........
 
Work done to the NP30 owned by my smith. Trigger job and a magwell. I know this because after shooting his gun I said " I want you to build a copy for me exactly the same". Which he did. If weekly matches are not sufficient to guage reliability I can't think what would be. It certainly exceeds your 100 rounds a year shooter example. I think using reason and logic to argue this point with you is a waste of time. Haters gonna hate.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom