My word...it wasnt even a Norinco

[45ACPKING]

I think Yomomma started this thread just for fun. A pile of pages in, I've come to the conclusion that showing various failures of brand. X or y affords us the ability to research and learn from others mistakes or mishaps. Also allows folks to get more informed about their rifles and what to watch out for, regardless of brand.
This forum has always had it share of drama and that's unfortunate but it's also a great place for learning and sharing. For my part, I've always tried to be honest and open about my experience and what I "know to be true" when it comes to these rifles. I've been fortunate enough to have spent 5 or more years building and customizing several hundred chinese and american m14 types. That 5 years was spent nearly 16 hours d to 6 days a week working on nuthin but these rifles. I'd like to think that my posts here are my way to give back and pay it forward. At least that is what I tell myself when I post hehehehe

 

[Hightrailtracker]

I REALLY Hope you will be here to help us New Bee's to the M305 / M14 world !!

As well as everyone else who can add knowledge / experience and enlighten us all with that knowledge in the M305 / M14 class of firearms .

There are many who are for the first timers or maybe a long timers , who are all trying to get the most out our M305's / M14 , less we forget people have put hard earned money into purchasing these rifles and more into after market parts just to be disappointed at the results .

Sometime a small amount of adjustment or replace a simple part can make a difference , But we have to Know about that part or adjustment , hence we all work together , then many things are possible .

I will do my best to add what I learn to the collective knowledge , I know I will never have thousands of hours of hands on like others , but I will try to add something to the group effort at understanding the M305 / M14 rifle and improving it .

 

[Hightrailtracker]

I did not forget about you easy 9mm , just having a hard time taking some of these pic's with the caliper not moving or changing its reading . I also included what I found between the standard spring guide rod ( Not even straight on the lead edges) VS a coated J&S coated solid guide rod .

Some of the reading are very close but many be off a hair . The inside is consistent from front to back in width .

Let me know what everyone thinks , is this worth posting ,,, this is a lot of pic's

 

[Easy 9mm]

Thank you for taking the time to take the pictures Hightrailtracker and thank you Yomamma for pointing me to the drawings on M14.ca. Going by the pictures, so far it looks like my bolt is just a couple thousandths narrower than yours. But when comparing it to the drawings, it should be acceptable still.

The thread has gone a little off topic though, but I would add that it doesn't seem to matter who makes the rifle, they all have their own issues. Even between different years with the same manufacturer. Just look at all the 2012 marked Norc rifles with indexing issues. That being said, when you also put the cost of the rifle into the equation, my opinion is that you shouldn't see some of the problems that have happened with the Springfield rifles.

 

[Ardent]

This thread makes me a bit sad. It reminds me of when I was one of the M1A/M305's great enthusiasts, as well as when I much more enjoyed the social aspect of sharing my enthusiasm with others. I posted quite a bit more then.

I post differently now. Whereas then I was very comfortable posting to share about my growing experience with the m1a type rifle; debating its inherent merits and flaws, exploring general technical rebuild stories & experience' participating in troubleshooting threads to help diagnose and fix problems; and conducting failure analysis on the "odd" rifle that went kaboom.....now, after having rebuilt many many dozen of these rifles and personally having inspected at least a half a dozen type m1a kabooms, I don't post at all about any of that experience. Now I'll only post anecdotal range review type stories about guns that are new to me, and even my appetite for that is almost gone.

Why? Because there are many still-devoted (sometimes religiously) folks who are so emotionally attached to their rifles that they can't see objectively, so much so that they use what are becoming more and more venhemous personal attacks in their fevered defense of whatever their favorite gun is. And after watching this for more than 15 years, my desire to participate is somewhat extinguished. It's not that I can't handle it when opinions differ and we disagree, rather it's the increasingly bitter way we go about it.

For those of you still with enough fire in your bellies to engage....good on you. I hope you can find ways to keep it civil, because without that our community will continue to shrink, resulting in a population governed by group think and whatever's become the entrenched status quo.

I've been around long enough to remember when Ardent loved his M1A, so I have some empathy for his position on the subject rifle and the quality of what's currently out there. I'm too tired and worn out to wade in with my own opinion, so you all will have to handle that without me.

Rather, for nostalgic posterity here's something from my now long-hibernating online battlerifle match. Ardent with his M1A in 2007:

And while I'm down the rabbit hole of memory lane, here's me when the m305 was my great love:

Cheers,

Brobee

Enjoyed that Brobee, and thanks, took me a second to recognize the photo! Think that was my favourite build at the time, all TRW parts, a real sweetheart. Think that's the one Skullboy let me use his garage to build as I didn't own the wrench and vice yet, but there were a good few built in that era might be off by one or three.

Have to reflect it is sad how it's gone, you're right, and for my part in it still can't warm up to Norinco after it all. Not something you should say around here, at least staunchly. Likely my fault in the whole matter as I can't answer a question about Norinco very positively, and it's tough to stand aside and have the all for China responses drown out everything else on new guys' questions. The old ones were OK, reflected their price and proved solid value, I have trouble making the same comments to new guys to M14s about the current stuff. A blown up one sits on my bench at home as I write this.

Given the home base of this forum, and the guys that built it, did it on Norinco (built plenty on them too during that period), it's a veritable powder keg to make strongly anti-Norc arguments in here. These last few weeks I've just been deciding to leave it be, and not answer on the question and opinion threads. They're cheap enough people can afford to spend the money and decide their own opinions, and no sense worrying about a gun that's not yours. It went from strong debate to personal slagging over it, pretty ugly and I'm going to follow your lead. Will only write about it as my current experiences illustrate. Been working with M1 Garands lately and that keeps me out of the mess.

 

[45ACPKING]

I know you two are mainly aiming these comments in my direction LOL
So. I'll say this
Having worked on (professionally), and I mean full front tto back inside and out, several hundred chinese rifles thru the Major import years of 2005 thru to 2013 , my experience and comments based on that experience, should not be disregarded.
Part of an old saying that I'll quote from explains my point of view
"Respect a man's opinion, and demand that he respects yours"

When guys who have been around a long time here want to disregard the findings I post that are based on hands on experience as a dedicated m14 smith..... You wonder why you get a bristly reaction from a guy like me.

So let's just get over it shall we?
I see no one preaching "only buy norinco" and the biggest "mascot" to the norinco rifles on CGN is Hungry. Remember.... Don't buy one buy two?
Didn't see any of these arguments directed Hungry's way.... By the guys here directing them my way.

Ah, whatever, I'm over it, comfortably retired at 44 , It's a gorgeous day outside and I'm goin fishin

 

[Hightrailtracker]

Ardent ,,, Sir

you stated " The old ones were OK, reflected their price and proved solid value, I have trouble making the same comments to new guys to M14s about the current stuff. A blown up one sits on my bench at home as I write this".

As I am an owner of a new 2012 / M305 (Long ) and as I am writing this a second M305 ( 2009 Long ) arrived at my door . I have 40 years experience with all types of hand guns and long guns but , I have No experience with the M14 / M305 except for examining the two I have now and reading posts on various web sites .

As such I cannot debate and will not debate the pro's and con's of the M305 , I only wish to learn .

Could you post a picture (s) of what a Blow up looks like and your thoughts on How and Why these occur .

Thank you from a New Bee to CGN and a New member to the M305 community .

 

[yomomma]

http://www.thegunzone.com/m1akb.html

This is what a M1A kaboom looks like

 

[Pblatzz]

http://www.thegunzone.com/m1akb.html

This is what a M1A kaboom looks like

That's a big Kaboom, It's good the "comprehensive metallurgical report" was done, indicating the root cause........

 

[angrysoldier]

we have 2 high end springfields in our vault at work, neither go to the range. The barrels are not fit to use as rebar. This is more common than people think. Ive said this once before on this site. We have that article on the wall at the shop so the young guys can see it too. doesent matter how much money you spend on your toys, sometimes junk make it out the door .

 

[TacticalTeacher]

I'm back from driving, and driving and then zig zagging-crossing AB and SK. Now after 13 hours of being on the road from Turner Valley, AB to Whistler , BC, I had a good night's sleep and somewhat rested up.

We can all agree these platforms are tools and that's where my input ends. They are fun to work on, and more fun to shoot whatever brand you own/fondle/spunk over; it's irrelevant. Frankly, as a trainer and competitor, what matters more is how many rounds you put down range, how often you get out and train, how often you compete and of course to what degree of intensity you train/compete with.

So everyone, just buy lots of ammo and get them newbies out shooting; while we can.

It's just a tool!

Barney

 

[Ardent]

That's a big Kaboom, It's good the "comprehensive metallurgical report" was done, indicating the root cause........

Indeed, below is the root cause analysis, the barrel contractor dropped the ball. Pretty interesting read, I work in aviation and we have a lot of NDT done (non destructive testing, for metal integrity). Will try and have the Norinco blow up on my bench run through, but that is a different thread, this was a divisive thread designed to be so from the outset.

http://www.thegunzone.com/m1akb/762r.html

As for Hungry, as he's just proven again, he's the consummate gentleman who manages to almost completely avoid the drivel as such. Admirable and enviable, good job.

 

[yomomma]

Never meant to be devisive , it was meant to show that even the "holy grails" come with issues. I hate it when people, who want to be divisive, only present half the picture. Not all norcs blow up and not all m1a's are perfect...

 

[Hightrailtracker]

Thank you for posting that report !

Now we understand Why it happened and the Cause was Not the ammo .

 

[Lost...again]

Never meant to be devisive , it was meant to show that even the "holy grails" come with issues. I hate it when people, who want to be divisive, only present half the picture.
Not all norcs blow up and not all m1a's are perfect...

 

[45ACPKING]

Never meant to be devisive , it was meant to show that even the "holy grails" come with issues. I hate it when people, who want to be divisive, only present half the picture. Not all norcs blow up and not all m1a's are perfect...

Hammer hits nail on head

 

[Hightrailtracker]

Here is a quick look at two M305's , One 2012 dressed up a bit and a just arrived 2009 plain Jane ..

There are some diffrences .

The Op spring rod looks the same but the older 2009 is thicker and better finished , the 2009 flash suppresser , has no ports milled out ?? the 2012 receiver width is alittle wider than the 2009 , see pic's . Enjoy

 

[Lost...again]

TOLD YA SO )

Now get on with that build

 

[yomomma]

Oh no's

Trigger issue help?
Hoping this is the right place for some help with a new and unexpected issue with my SA M1A. Here's the issue: Trigger randomly but progressively became harder and harder to pull to break the shot. Several rounds would not break at all had to be ejected. Those rounds did in fact fire on secondary tries. It seemed random in the sense that some rounds just went as expected. Some rounds were a bit harder to break. A few wouldn't break at at. Have eliminated the ammunition as the source of the issue. I suspect something is breaking down in the trigger assembly (SA standard) or possibly something going on with seating the rounds in battery. The gun is cleaned and greased well after every outing so it isn't dirty or dry. I have however never done a complete breakdown of the bolt with ejector removal. When I cycle the gun without ammunition or mags installed it behaves as it always has. (I have used these mags before with no issue so thinking its not the mags either). As I have said, I suspect trigger assembly issue or failure to fully go into battery. I am no expert with this weapon's mechanics. Still learning, so I was hoping to find a sensei here who might enlighten me on this issue. Thank you in advance for any and all assistance offered.

 

[yomomma]

Accuracy you say

I have a Socom II that has real accuracy issues. It was bad out of the box, I swapped the factory crap plastic stock for a Troy chassis. I really like the way it feels and I mounted a Vortex 1-4x qcb scope. I have been able to get it on the 12 in plates at 100yrds at my range, but just barely. I put out a paper target at 50 yrds and tried to get some groups. With 147g Winchester 7.62x51I was getting 4-5 inch grps, centered on the bullseye, but crappy. With 168g Federal GGM it was 3-4 in, and with surplus 147g nato it was in the 7-8in. I am not that happy. Is there anyone that does an accurizing package to these guns? I know its not a 600-1000 yrd gun ,but this sucks. My SBR HK53 shoots grps 1/2 this size. I also Live in Mass, so I can't use the Sage stock(my 1st choice), we cant have collapse able stocks here

P.S. I did just call fulton armory, they can look at it, but these is a 12-16 week wait