Mystery Hi-Power

Horilka said:
Do you have Clive's "Inglis Diamond" book? Because I don't and we need this book to check following theory. Many ppl here have it and hopefully will chime in.
From what I know - Dieudonné Saive (the guy who actually designed HP) and and Rene Laloux from FN arrived to Canada to help to set up manufacturing with original FN technical documentation. What it tells me that first pistols made at Inglis had to have exact look and features as FN made pistols, including front sight. For example I know that early Inglis HPs had round barrel cam, that probably was result of using original FN drawings that for some reason lacking updated to square cam (FN changed to square cam in 1938, unlike popular belief there were no issues with round cam at all, but at certain stage due to one of FN customers' request square cam was accepted and recognized as change worth keeping). Usually when manufacture is adopted by new company and/or for new customers there might be some simplifications/improvement changes. It looks to me that "standard" Inglis front sight is simplification from original design, i.e. looking crude, but less machining operations required, so cheaper to make. I suppose if Clive's book has pictures of the very first slides made at Inglis we might be able to see same pattern of front sight.
Now, do Chinese enrolled slides constitute early slides? Then this fact supports my theory that your slide is early.

P.S. Holly molly, I totally overlooked the picture of barrel in your original post. Man, you just have very early Inglis HP, with round cam and original FN style front sight. I think along with early barrel my theory is very conclusive. Congratulations, Nick, you found very nice Inglis, very special.
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A friend of mine has a copy of the book, was hoping to borrow it so i could give that part a read. What got me looking again was actually because he was buying a Inglis with Chinese script and he showed me some pics of it and i noticed the front sight, decided to do a bit more googling and found several more, all Chinese script models. I have yet to actually find any pics of an inglis with this front sight without the Chinese script.
 
Horilka said:
Do you have Clive's "Inglis Diamond" book? Because I don't and we need this book to check following theory. Many ppl here have it and hopefully will chime in.
From what I know - Dieudonné Saive (the guy who actually designed HP) and and Rene Laloux from FN arrived to Canada to help to set up manufacturing with original FN technical documentation. What it tells me that first pistols made at Inglis had to have exact look and features as FN made pistols, including front sight. For example I know that early Inglis HPs had round barrel cam, that probably was result of using original FN drawings that for some reason lacking updated to square cam (FN changed to square cam in 1938, unlike popular belief there were no issues with round cam at all, but at certain stage due to one of FN customers' request square cam was accepted and recognized as change worth keeping). Usually when manufacture is adopted by new company and/or for new customers there might be some simplifications/improvement changes. It looks to me that "standard" Inglis front sight is simplification from original design, i.e. looking crude, but less machining operations required, so cheaper to make. I suppose if Clive's book has pictures of the very first slides made at Inglis we might be able to see same pattern of front sight.
Now, do Chinese enrolled slides constitute early slides? Then this fact supports my theory that your slide is early.

P.S. Holly molly, I totally overlooked the picture of barrel in your original post. Man, you just have very early Inglis HP, with round cam and original FN style front sight. I think along with early barrel my theory is very conclusive. Congratulations, Nick, you found very nice Inglis, very special.
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Inglis reverse engineered the FN High Power pistols supplied by a Chinese General and Val Browning. Inglis DID NOT receive ANY drawings from FN until after Inglis was in production.

Inglis completed their drawings before Enfield, and well before FN management became involved. The fact that Inglis was so far ahead of Enfield was largely the reason that Enfield did not put the HP into production themselves (and of course the fact that FN management did not want the British government to manufacture the HP pistol).

In fact Inglis was manufacturing the High Power before FN had direct involvement - FN supplied (un dimentioned) drawings of the angular barrel cam and higher Ejector AFTER Inglis experienced barrel cam breakage and mal ejections of high round count test guns.

The revised extractor/extractor tunnel and firing pin plate relationship and geometry and the MkII hammer sear and spring bar geometry all appear to have been Inglis innovations adopted by FN post war.
 
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Interesting, I did not know about reverse engineering. Does this in your opinion support the theory the early Inglis' had same front sight and base as FN handguns?
Also - what are your references for reverse engineering and issues with round barrel cam?
 
I have a Chinese contract Inglis from my father that looks identical to the one in the OP's photos. Tangent sights, parkerized and a slot on the grip for the butt stock. The commander style hammer is the same, too. I have 3 magazines that originally came with it. One original Inglis mag with the letters JLI stamped on the base plate. The other two are 1950's vintage and it is compatible with modern Hi Power magazines. It's the first 9mm that I ever shot.
 
Horilka said:
Let me re-phrase it, "All Inglis HPs I handled had front sight style that is different from what OP posted". You clearly misunderstood my post.
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I misunderstood nothing. You called the front sight unusual. It is nothing of the sort. It’s the standard front sight that is still in use by the forces to this day.

All the Inglis that you’ve handled had different front sights? How many was that? The fact that they were altered makes originals unusual?
 
Leg said:
I misunderstood nothing. You called the front sight unusual. It is nothing of the sort. It’s the standard front sight that is still in use by the forces to this day.

All the Inglis that you’ve handled had different front sights? How many was that? The fact that they were altered makes originals unusual?
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Just so we're all on the same page here, which front sight are you talking about? The one on the left or the one on the right?

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OK, now I see what you’re talking about. When you said front sight I was only focused on the actual front sight blade, not the slide. The slide on the left looks like regular Cdn Inglis. Sorry for the confusion.
 
Managed to get my hands on a copy Clive Law's Inglis Diamond. From what I have read this gun is an early pre mk1*, main differences being, the round cam lug in the barrel, the squared off front sight base (although this is only lightly touched on, almost an afterthought), the longer guide groove on the slide, the shorter ejector & early style extractor. I did not remove the hammer to confirm if it is the old or newer style. Parts likely made Feb-May 1944, being as its a lunchbox gun its hard to say when it was actually assembled. Couple pictures from the book.
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It looks just like mine, also a lunchbox special. Yours was definitely from the Chinese contract. The early ones all had that style of rear sight. In fact it was later changed to the normal sight. I was very lucky in that who ever registered it did not have any serial number forced onto it. It is a very nice part of history. I will have to dig it out tomorrow, just to double check the front sight. Mine also has the slot for the wooden stock, also only on the Chinese contract.
 
Leg said:
I misunderstood nothing. You called the front sight unusual. It is nothing of the sort. It’s the standard front sight that is still in use by the forces to this day.

All the Inglis that you’ve handled had different front sights? How many was that? The fact that they were altered makes originals unusual?
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It is a case of poor nominclature - it is not the "front sight", it is the "frobt sight boss" or "front sight base" that is different.
 
Horilka said:
Interesting, I did not know about reverse engineering. Does this in your opinion support the theory the early Inglis' had same front sight and base as FN handguns?
Also - what are your references for reverse engineering and issues with round barrel cam?
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Clive Law's masterful work "Inglis Diamond" has DATED engineering and production drawing from Inglis, Enfield and FN "In Exile".
 
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