Mystery Win 94 30/30 w/no Serial #

S

solstice

New member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
http://sixgun1963.imgur.com/all/?original

Hi everyone.
The good people on the General Discussion forum suggested I come here for some help.
I have a old Winchester Model 94 30/30 that doesn't appear to have a serial number. The only number that appears is the number 75 located directly in front of the trigger (see link for pictures)
I should mention that there is no evidence that a serial number once exsisted and has been removed.
I know that with a serial number I'd be able to date this rifle and price it accordingly for sale but until then I'm at a loss as to how old it is.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
 
This is where it's supposed to be. Perhaps yours is a prototype or else it wore right off.

Pre-PostBottomMantageforum.jpg
 
From what I've learned a prototype would have the letter P stamped on the butt plate and there's no evidence of that.
I've gone over that area you're showing with a magnifying glass and I just can't see that there has ever been a serial number there.
 
Well it's a given is that it is earlier than about 1946. The 30 W.C.F. designation was dropped then. Looks alot similar in metalurgy to a friend's 30-30 rifle made in 1923. That number on the buttplate could be a drawing number. It is said that these most likely represent the earlier 1894s because workers were not used to the fitting of rifle butts to the action. This could be confirmed by some info placed on the 'net, that the same number should be under the wood and on the RH side of the tang. Maybe even backwards?? Apparently as workers got better at stock fitting, this practice was later dropped. Jamesjuliaauction had a similar cached 1894 with a number 72 on it's side. But I was unable to view this most likely archived document. They said most likely early Post WW1 manufacture, but this is pure conjecture without more information.

I have nothing else to offer.
 
I'm waiting to hear back from the Cody Firearms Museum now. I think they're my last best hope in getting some answers but if anyone has any more suggestions are where to try it'd be appreciated.
 
A few things:
The 75 in front of the trigger is a fitter's marking. The serial number would only be where it was noted above that it should be. It appears the metal has been heavily cleaned / polished, if there was a serial number there, it could have been removed. Some were not stamped very deep. You can see how shallow the WP proofs on the top of the receiver and barrel are too but being cleaned. The edges are rounded too.
Ok, some clues to the potential DOM. Winchester started applying the WP proofs on the 1894 barrels and receivers in May 1905 IIRC.
Yours in an 1894,as opposed to a model 94. Winchester dropped the "18" from their models in the early 1920s, maybe as early as 1919, can't recall 100%.
Your upper tang marking is a Type 3 tang marking. This type tang marking was used for approximately the serial number range of 500,000 to 765,000 (from Polishing Room records -which denote when the receiver of a gun was serialized - this would correspond from roughly 1911 to 1915.
The barrel address is a type 4 barrel address, found generally in the 450,000 to 760,000 serial number range. This roughly corresponds with the years 1910 to 1915 sometime.
That all said, appears your carbine was made somewhere between 1910 and 1915, and the serial number was most likely removed sometime long ago when the receiver was cleaned. Does look like a PCMR sling, but it is not a PCMR. As already pointed out, there is a very specific serial number these guns are found in, at a much later date. Also, that sure appears to be a SIN number. Common on some old guns.
Cheers,
Matt
 
Last edited:
Thanks Matt, that's the best information I've received so far. Any guesses as to what this rifle may be worth? (if anything at all) The reason for wanting the serial number was to price it for sale.
Thanks again to everyone who took a look and offered opinions.
 
Value depends on condition. The action looks to have been heavily polished at some time in the past as evidenced by the rounded edges.

Assuming a strong bore and everything works as it's supposed to, I'd put a value of $300-$400 on it purely as a shooter. Any collector value has been mostly destroyed by the polishing.
 
Did anyone ever think it may be a salesman sample and did not get serialized. that would be my guess. but it has a PCMR front sling band. maybe it is perhaps a piece together rifle.
 
That guns been ground, and likely stolen at some point.

Picture is pretty clear on that.

I have no clue what someone would pay for a 94 with the serial # filed off. Can't imagine its much.
 
OldWays said:
Is it really that clear it's been stolen?
Click to expand...

its likely..at some point like I said. And in no way am I insinuating the OP is culpable.

You'd be leaning aweful hard on a buffing wheel for a very long time to clear that off. And its not the first 94 ever made, because the Browning company owns that one.

You have to wear away alot of metal to clear off EVERY number. Whats more likely? A gun wearing perfectly enough to loose all numbers? Someones kid got bored and decided to try his filing skills? If it was from a saddle the wood should be dished out almost to the mag tube, and the apex were the flat underside meets the radius would be heavily dished I would wager.

Or its among the many guns that have had the serial numbers removed. Look at the pictures of the left and right side of the receiver on his link, the radiuses dont match and it even looks like someone took a file to it.

Its worth a couple hundred bucks, and you may have difficulty selling it missing those numbers.

edited to add: there were no 30-30 1894's available in 1894. you could only get them in 38-55 and 32-40.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom