National Post article on Canada's "dangerouly unreliable" BHPs

That gives me a great idea. I'm assuming they would likely send them to the smelter anyways; they should dewat them and sell them off as bottle openers...

Yeah, but they'd probably still insist that you have an RPAL, and probably require an STATT to take one home because they used to be, well, child-murdering handguns, even if unreliable.

travis_m said:
The worst part is they are encouraged to put less in the magazine to increase reliability.

I read somewhere that loading 12 rather than 13 rounds was OK.

Just rename them the BDHP (Browning Demi-Hi Power) or maybe MP (Mi-Puissance) as it was the increased mag capacity that gave it its name in the first place.
 
Another part of the "heavy and outdated" collection along with the "leather&paracord heavy helmet", the C7A2 musket topped with the 2 pounds C79...

They should do like they did with boots and allow us to buy what we need instead of waiting for the slowpokes at procurement !
 
Another part of the "heavy and outdated" collection along with the "leather¶cord heavy helmet", the C7A2 musket topped with the 2 pounds C79...

They should do like they did with boots and allow us to buy what we need instead of waiting for the slowpokes at procurement !

Similar to the marines where your sidearm can be your personal buy? Not gonna lie I would be ecstatic if that happened. As for the c7... it does work. But a c8 would be more ideal.
 
The story is total BS!
Sounds more like an enemedia agenda story from the RedStar! Most conservatives have abandoned the National Post since they began running & re-posting CBC stories, trash from the NY Times, & the Washington Post. Seems they like "fake" news. Like the "new" Fox News, the NP has made a hard left turn into the red zone.

The Canadian Inglis BHP is a reliable pistol. Ask anyone. Chock up any failures to DND malfeasance.
 
Marines can have their personnal sidearm ?!?

Yeah C7 work but Light Infantry should have C8 issued as basic weapon for optimal reasons
 
The story is total BS!
Sounds more like an enemedia agenda story from the RedStar! Most conservatives have abandoned the National Post since they began running & re-posting CBC stories, trash from the NY Times, & the Washington Post. Seems they like "fake" news. Like the "new" Fox News, the NP has made a hard left turn into the red zone.

The Canadian Inglis BHP is a reliable pistol. Ask anyone. Chock up any failures to DND malfeasance.

That is a degree of trolling even I haven't mastered. Well done. Gave me a solid chuckle.

Marines can have their personnal sidearm ?!?

Yeah C7 work but Light Infantry should have C8 issued as basic weapon for optimal reasons

I don't know it might be a marsoc thing but I remember shortly after the new 1911 got adopted by the marine corps, they snuck in a new rule about them using personal sidearms if it was on some approved list. If I find it I will send it to you. Not sure if that changed since then.

And you have no arguements from me about the c7 vs c8. I know what I would pick if given the choice every time.

EDIT: the official message for it.
https://www.marines.mil/News/Messag...cs-modular-attachments-and-modifications-for/
 
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That is a degree of trolling even I haven't mastered. Well done. Gave me a solid chuckle.



I don't know it might be a marsoc thing but I remember shortly after the new 1911 got adopted by the marine corps, they snuck in a new rule about them using personal sidearms if it was on some approved list. If I find it I will send it to you. Not sure if that changed since then.

And you have no arguements from me about the c7 vs c8. I know what I would pick if given the choice every time.

EDIT: the official message for it.
https://www.marines.mil/News/Messag...cs-modular-attachments-and-modifications-for/

I dont think that link means what you think it means.
 
I think I originally misunderstood that. Stand by I'll try and find the answer. If I remember I'll ask around mext time I go to 29 palms.
 
Are there still BHPs in grease? (The article said "as late as the early 2000s") But yes, sending a pistol team to compete with clapped-out pistols is nothing short of a national embarrasment.

Last time I saw new pistol in the grease bag fresh from OP Stock was 2015. There very well could be more in the depot, but it would be hoarded and held for operational use only. CAFSAC or international fun competitions is not a national priority, and units can compete with their locally held weapons. My reserve unit had 20 fully functional pistols, I can only imagine what degree of neglect is necessary for the unit in question to have 15/20 pistols not working.

Something doesn't add up with that 1950's date. I was always under the impression Inglis production stopped pretty quickly in 1945. CAL (Canadian Arsenals Ltd) Located in the former Small Arms plant at Longbranch made some prototypes of a lightweight version but I think they were mostly making spare parts. Perhaps someone with more knowledge than me will chime in.
The pistols themselves aren't dated, so he could very well have been relying on some packing slip or inspection tag to determine the date.

It really comes down to extending the search and tendering process.

We have a liberal government. Graft and corruption are standard practices.

You dont expect them to just work for their wages do you?

You need to do your home work. DND has been buggering the pistol acquisition program for more than ten years already, and has far more to do with the munitions supply program than it does with the government in power.

The worst part is they are encouraged to put less in the magazine to increase reliability. That gives you comfort in a war zone.

what that tells you is that the original magazines, and not the pistols themselves, are a significant source of the problem.

It doesn't help that soldiers are taught to routinely disassemble the magazines and to STREEEETCH the springs in order to increase spring tension.

The stoppages are mainly due to the magazines aren't they?

Many of them yes. But not all.

The browning is a great training pistol. Poor sights, heavy trigger, unforgiving recoil. If you can shoot a browning well, you can shoot anything well.

One of the problems with the browning is that there is a very narrow margin between having sufficient recoil to cycle the action properly, and insufficient recoil energy resulting in stoppage. This margin gets smaller when the springs get tired. The result is that any bit of recoil energy lost to a weak grip can quickly result in a stoppage. The vast majority of stoppages I've seen with a browning that were not mag related were quickly remedied with a proper grip.

In truth, a good modern combat pistol should be far more forgiving of poor form, and I will be happy to see the pistol get replaced. Unfortunately, far too many higher ups who are entitled to a pistol were never properly trained on them, and their opinions on the usefulness of pistol range from a quaint novelty to a haunting liability.

Whether we are talking about new pistols, or proper maintenance, or more time and ammo at the range, DND will never take pistols seriously until the pointy heads can wrap their heads around the fact that its not 1914 anymore, and pistols are a secondary for war fighters, and not a banal symbol of authority.
 
This is all pretty standard for the Browning Hi-Power, the 74-year-old pistol still carried as the primary sidearm of the Canadian Armed Forces.
Unlike most pistols carried by G7 militaries, Brownings have a tendency to rattle and soldiers have been advised not to fully load the pistol because it will wear out the springs.
So our military is too incompetent to figure out how to replace magazine springs for the BHP (which are commercially available for a couple of bucks apiece)? Sounds like that would solve most if not all of the jamming issues. If they are still using 1940's era springs, I'm surprised that the guns run at all.
 
So our military is too incompetent to figure out how to replace magazine springs for the BHP (which are commercially available for a couple of bucks apiece)? Sounds like that would solve most if not all of the jamming issues. If they are still using 1940's era springs, I'm surprised that the guns run at all.

The military doesn't usually buy that kind of stuff. Public Services and Procurement Canada does. And yes, they are incompetent. Its also a problem with the corporate culture. No one gets in trouble for NOT spending money. The military puts their hand up with a requirement and says we need this now or people will die. PSPC sets off to buy it but only cares that for every person spending money there are three more looking over their shoulder making sure that all the rules have been complied with, and if rule compliance makes it take three times as long, then at least the taxpayers have been protected. Never mind that a $3 spring costs $40 by the time you comply with all their added hoops, or that its a 25 second manufacturing process with 3 weeks of paperwork, and never mind the soldier who died digging through his tac vest side pocket for that 6th magazine after having unsuccessfully thrown his jammed pistol at the lone enemy to his front. PSPC doesn't have to factor the opportunity cost of doing nothing into their operational budgets.
 
This whole subject is just a testimony on how incompetent our government is. The US Army just spent millions on their procurement for a pistol to replace the M9 Beretta. There is no reason for the Cdn. military not to just adopt the M17 Sig and move on. The US Army's requirements cannot be any different than our Army. Christ when was the last time, read never, an Army went to war armed with only a pistol. This is not rocket science. For the cost of the government's study we could have equipped our Army, Navy and Air Force with enough M17 pistols to arm every man , woman and LEO in the Federal Gov't.

You wonder why there is little to no support among the civilian population to maintain a large armed force. This is just another example and a small one at that. Follow the bouncing ball until it reaches the saga to replace the CF 18 Fighters when the obvious choice is the new Super Hornet.

My nephew was over in Iraq, digging up mines after the war and had to beg borrow and steal equipment from the US Army just to do the tasks Chretien sent them over to do. It is just a Fnnnn disgrace how we treat our military.

Hey (name the comedian) wanna a donation of $50,000,000. from mr/ Cutesy aka the Selfie Man.

Take Care

Bob
 
In 2018 they should realize that due to human physical variances they should offer at the very least - a backstrap/grip option. Let alone comfort and other differences between soldiers. They do it with uniforms, why not the swords of the day?
 
Buddy of mine served in Kandahar in ...2010, I think. He told me a story of unboxing a brand new, still in the grease Inglis Hi-Power, dated 1950-something, and subsequently cleaning it in the dark at 3:00AM local time... So, there WERE still some NOS pistols kicking around, fairly recently, anyways.

The Inglis BHPs were all made in 1944 and 1945. They were only in production those two years.
But yup, getting a new one in the box for tour was far from uncommon. Probably melt some collector's brains to think of those boxes being tossed out and those pristine decals getting worn away.
 
The Inglis BHPs were all made in 1944 and 1945. They were only in production those two years.
But yup, getting a new one in the box for tour was far from uncommon. Probably melt some collector's brains to think of those boxes being tossed out and those pristine decals getting worn away.

I thought more were made till 1948?

Sinasta as for bootforgen. It's a temporary thing till a revised issue system gets implemented with a wider selection of boots so don't expect that to last.
 
The Inglis BHPs were all made in 1944 and 1945. They were only in production those two years.
But yup, getting a new one in the box for tour was far from uncommon. Probably melt some collector's brains to think of those boxes being tossed out and those pristine decals getting worn away.

Yes and they were not made on metric equipment but rather American Standard so not all parts from a Browning will interchange as they should. Once the war ended so did production.

Take Care

Bob
 
In 2018 they should realize that due to human physical variances they should offer at the very least - a backstrap/grip option. Let alone comfort and other differences between soldiers. They do it with uniforms, why not the swords of the day?

I have yet to own a pair of combats that fit in the sleeves properly... so no we can't quite get their with our uniforms either
 
It's time to move to a system similar to that of the US. I think we should go to the same gun as the Americans, since most of the time we're just going on mission with them anyway. But of course our Drama Teacher in Chief isn't going to do this, so it'll be up to the next (hopefully Scheer) government.
 
Service Pistol Thoughts
There are a lot of issues not addressed in the article.
Were the pistols inspected by the weapon techs prior to issue for competition?
How much practice time did the shooters have with thier pistols prior to competition?
Was this a regular force unit which hasits own unit weapon techs or a reserve unit which does not have its own techs?
These are important factors.
As a former CF member who competed at the brigade level with the Browning as issued in the 80's. All of our pistols were inspected by the weapon techs prior to competition for servicability. Generally they gave us a serial number range to use and we chose pistols from our stores in that range. On competition the triggers were tested for trigger weight and any under the proscribed limits were not allowed for competition. I remember polishing the mags for hours to lighten the trigger pull. We would practice 5 days a week prior to competition usually averaging 200 to 500 rds a day per shooter on our team. S ..T happens and jams and stoppage drills are taught and practiced for a reason. Bad ammo bad mag etc can be expected in field operations. I made sure my pistol was properly cleaned and lubricated prior to shooting and when I competed with it and I did not have issues with it . (I am not saying shooters in this article did not clean their pistols ). In the competitions I shot points were awarded for hits on the target if you had a stoppage you cleared it and continued, it was expected. If you couldn't clear your pistol and continue then you lost points and the competition. By this point all mags and the gun should be reliable if i had an issue with a mag more than once it was replaced bent lips or weak spring usually the issue.
All firearms require maintenance and lubrication is important the Browning is no different. When I deployed with my service Browning I had full confidence in it. In Afghanistan the dust was a real issue and required daily cleaning. However properly maintained it is a very reliable handgun.
Is it time for something new ?
Probably.
I would prefer something with more power like a double action 45 or a coonan in 357 but its not likely to happen.
However i would not hesitate to take a Browning again
My 2 cents
Wyle1
 
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