Neat stuff! 9mm vs 40s&W vs 45ACP Ranger cartridges on WinchesterLE site

CanuckShooter

CanuckShooter

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Not sure if this has already been posted, but I thought it was pretty interesting. Seems to be a pretty good argument in favour of 9mm considering it either matched, or outperformed .40S&W in almost every category.

ht tp://ww w.winchester.com/lawenforcement/testing/testing_t.aspx

On a somewhat related note, here is a really neat articale I came across regarding the controversial topic of "stopping power" or "hydrostatic shock". It makes some real interesting points.

ht tp://ww w.firearmstactical.com/briefs3.htm#The%20Myth%20of%20Energy%20Transfer
 
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I don't think the "no hot linking" rule applies to this, but anyways.

First off, I've never seen the Ranger "T" series available anywhere in Canada. I have seen non-bonded Rangers for sale, TSE has some 9mm right now (or they did a month ago). I have some of the non-bonded Rangers in 9mm and .40.

The "T" series is the new and improved round from Winchester

That graph is confusing as hell as all rounds apparently penetrated bare gelatin LESS than steel?
 
I'm not sure. Would it be like in MythBusters when they shot the rifles into the water and the bullets either disintegrated, or had very dismal penetration into the water? I think they used a .50cal, and maybe a .30-06 I think? Yet in that special on Discovery Channel a while back it showed a .223rem and 7.62x39 blasted through cement, very thick sections of wood etc..

Is it the way that semi-solids (if that's even a word) and liquids react to such high impact forces that causes this?

Anyone here know or have any link to commercially available bullet tests between these calibres?

I am pretty sure that these are only available to LE.
 
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targettarget said:
I don't think the "no hot linking" rule applies to this, but anyways.

First off, I've never seen the Ranger "T" series available anywhere in Canada. I have seen non-bonded Rangers for sale, TSE has some 9mm right now (or they did a month ago). I have some of the non-bonded Rangers in 9mm and .40.

The "T" series is the new and improved round from Winchester

That graph is confusing as hell as all rounds apparently penetrated bare gelatin LESS than steel?
Click to expand...

We have the Tactical Bonded in stock.
 
a little better comparison here

http://demigodllc.com/~zak/firearms/fbi-pistol.php

now interesting fact from my own time shooting 5.45 caliber (guess what gun). When bullets hit the water they ricochette up to about almost 40 degrees angle, that is something wild to watch your tracers flying up like from hitting concrete. I guess at those velocities water acts just like concrete.

Shooting through the water is known fact. I remember me trying to kill huge skate that was just inches under water. I emptied the whole magazine (5.45 again) and not one bullet penetrated completely. So next time when you guys watch movie with bullet traces under water stretching to about 10 feet - keep in mind this is just a movie.
 
So next time when you guys watch movie with bullet traces under water stretching to about 10 feet - keep in mind this is just a movie.
Click to expand...
well, I doubt they would float up :D

btw where did you get .22 tracers?
 
Yeah skate is way at the bottom of my seafood list. We were fishing, not hunting, in Persian Gulf. Shooting skate wasn't my idea and we shot it just because we had AK loaded and handy and trgger happiness is in our blood. Again 5.45 is not a 22lr but much faster round.
 
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I use my swimming pool to test bullets. Even a 8mm loaded with Barnes X drops safely to the bottom without any damage to the pool liner. Deep end, of course. I have been told it takes only 2 feet to stop a bullet, Have not tested that by shooting into the shallow end.
 
Somebody overdosed something. The 9mm penetrates 19 inches of steel....[/QUOTE said:
Bollocks...

19 inchs of steel...some tank shells have trouble penetrating 19 inchs of steel???

Those 9mm rounds must be made from Depleted Uranium ala the A-10 Warthog tank-killer rounds.



Here is a real comparison...(although DoubleTap is NOT available in Canada)...Hint, Hint TSE


All of these tests were done using 10% ballistic gelatin provided by Vyse gelatin using all FBI protocols and 4 layers of denim and two layers of light cotton T-shirt in front of the gelatin.

DoubleTap 9mm+P
115gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1415fps - 12.00" / .70"
124gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1310fps - 13.25" / .70"
147gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.00" / .66"

DoubleTap .40 S&W Penetration / expansion
135gr. Nosler JHP @ 1375fps - 12.10" / .72"
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1275fps - 13.00" / .76"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1200fps - 14.0" / .70"
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1100fps - 14.75" / .68"
200gr XTP @ 1050fps - 17.75" / .59"


DoubleTap .357 Sig
115gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1550fps - 12.25" / .71"
125gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1450fps - 14.5" / .66"
147gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1250fps - 14.75" / .73"

DoubleTap .357 Magnum
125gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1600fps - 12.75" / .69"
158gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 19.0" .56"

DoubleTap 10mm
135gr JHP @ 1600fps - 11.0" / .70" frag nasty
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1475fps - 13.5" / .88"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"
165gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1425fps - 14.75" / .82"
180gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1330fps - 16.0" / .85"
180gr XTP @ 1350fps – 17.25” / .77”
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1300fps - 15.25" / .96"
200gr XTP @ 1250fps - 19.5" / .72"
230gr Equalizer @ 1040fps - 11.0" and 17.0" / .62" and .40"

DoubleTap .45ACP
185gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1225fps - 12.75" / .82"
200gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.25" / .88"
230gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1010fps - 15.25" / .95"

DoubleTap 9X25
115gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1800fps - 10.0" / .64" frag nasty
125gr Gold DOt JHP @ 1725fps - 15.0" / .74"
147gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1550fps - 17.5" / .68"
Click to expand...
 
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Well, I'd still pick the .45 as the best result from their tests, although all performed well. The combination of expansion and penetration on the .45 are very good IMO.

Not that it matters since we can't own handguns for self-defense anyway. :)
 
Rudi said:
Somebody overdosed something. The 9mm penetrates 19 inches of steel...
Click to expand...

SWEET!

I wish I got issued THAT load, instaed of the Winchester Ranger 147GR JHP that gets stopped by a wool sweater because it is so frickin' anemic.

I guess that's what happens when your organization is more concerned with liability when you MISS your target, than in training members to actually shoot accurately... But I digress!

:)
 
I don't the graph means that it penetrates 19 inches of steel. I think it means that it went through steel, maybe like the steel in a car door. It says auto glass also. I think it means through an average glass, not a bullet being shot into a big block of glass.

I think it's more for the steel probably cause it has something to do with inhibiting the expansion of the hollow point.

Not really sure why the 40 would penetrate less than the 9mm though.
 
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