Neck size die ?

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BigBraz15

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So I have finally got through my brass and a bit of ammo and working to reload some for the 280 AI. I have a Hornady FL die and it is working the body a decent amount. I want to get some opinions on neck size dies. Are the bushing dies really worth double (or more)?

I have found a few neck dies that are standard for around $100, the bushing does anywhere from $200-400 and up.

This rifle is for hunting, not extreme accuracy. I was getting good enough accuracy at 600 yards with factory new Nosler brass that I had loaded without resizing. I have shot factory Nosler loads plus my loads in Nosler brass that hadn’t been resized into far less than an inch consistently, so not really looking to improve on that, just to maintain that and hopefully work the brass less.

Any guidance would be super helpful.

Thanks!
 
+ 1 for lee collet dies. I’ve found on the 3rd firing of a case i get best accuracy because the brass has been through the chamber twice to form and is darn near hand in glove fit to the chamber. The die also creates a highly concentric case mouth with very low runout so the bullet/brass is pretty close to laser alignment with the bore when you close the bolt.
 
You could also back out your full length sizing due to just do the neck
I’ve never tried it but it’s supposed to work and would save you $$$ from buying a new die
 
Deathrawt said:
You could also back out your full length sizing due to just do the neck
I’ve never tried it but it’s supposed to work and would save you $$$ from buying a new die
Click to expand...
I’ve done 100 s that way and then once they don’t chamber any more screw it down and full lenght size them !
 
I Dont Care About You said:
If your FL die is set too low, that is on you. Set the die properly so it doesn't "work the body a decent amount". 🤷‍♂️

Get a gauge set so you can measure the headspace on fired cases. Then set your die so it only produces a couple of thou crush.
Click to expand...

Yes, I get that for moving the shoulder. The problem I have in this case (which I didn’t properly expand on), the chamber in my rifle is wider below the shoulder, so when I use the Hornady FL sizer it is squishing down the top 1/3 or so of the case to smaller dimensions than they are coming out fired from. I backed the die way off, but never did get to a point that it wasn’t working a bunch of brass. So my hope is here, that just a neck die would leave brass the way it comes out of the chamber but able to hold a new bullet appropriately.

I hope that makes sense.
 
BigBraz15 said:
Yes, I get that for moving the shoulder. The problem I have in this case (which I didn’t properly expand on), the chamber in my rifle is wider below the shoulder, so when I use the Hornady FL sizer it is squishing down the top 1/3 or so of the case to smaller dimensions than they are coming out fired from. I backed the die way off, but never did get to a point that it wasn’t working a bunch of brass. So my hope is here, that just a neck die would leave brass the way it comes out of the chamber but able to hold a new bullet appropriately.

I hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...
you should still be able to PARTIAL resize the braas to fit with your full lenght die - Have you not tried that yet ?
 
BigBraz15 said:
the chamber in my rifle is wider below the shoulder, so when I use the Hornady FL sizer it is squishing down the top 1/3 or so of the case to smaller dimensions than they are coming out fired from. I backed the die way off, but never did get to a point that it wasn’t working a bunch of brass.
Click to expand...
If you have a Hornady 280 AI die, Sounds like your AI chamber doesn't match up what Hornady thinks is an AI chamber, something is out of spec.
Custom rifle ?

You could try a simple neck die but no promise it won't contact the brass also. Difference between a simple neck die and a bushing neck die is just that with the simple die the neck size is set, with a bushing you can change dimension and neck tension

Like james above suggests maybe a 7mag die would do for neck only
 
When you get a bad combination of a loose chamber and a tight FL die it isn’t possible to not size the crap out of the case. You can back off the die to try to bump the shoulder less but when you stuff a fattie into a skinny the diameter is being reduced so much that the length increases until the shoulder is moved forward significantly and has to be pushed back again. This happens to a lesser extent with all FL dies, but it can get pretty bad.

I’m not a huge fan of neck sizing, but it has it’s place and this could be one of them.
Sometimes just trying a different FL will solve the issue, but it’s random and unless you have a pile of them laying around, random can cost a lot.

I used to like it when I had sizing issues with a Redding and RCBS dies. Inevitably they would say to send it in with 3 fired cases and as often as not you would get a custom cut die for your chamber and the brass you sent in. Those are a joy to work with.
 
Since this is a sharp shouldered case used for hunting, my highest priority is 100% function. if you are using hotter levels of powder charge, the brass is going to expand and if not properly sized can and will cause chambering issues. Also, if your hunting conditions introduce the risk of wet ammo, tighter fitting brass that is damp may also cause issues. On the other side, overly sized brass can lead to case head separation as it splits upon firing.

You have already proven that factory brass functions and provides all the accuracy you need. I would buy another bag of brass (same lot hopefully, if not confirm load) which I assume is 50pcs and keep that just for hunting. That is many years of ammo that you can trust will not give you issues in the field.

By all means, reload as you see fit but keep an eye on fit and chambering ease. There are worst things then 'working' brass. Not chambering is far worst and you will not see a problem until you have a problem at the worst possible time.

If you are serious about reloading, find a Redding body die and see if that fits your chamber better. Then you can neck sizing using a Lee collet neck die.

Or see if anyone has another brand of FL sizing die and see if that fits the chamber better. I wouldn't bother about any bushing die... unless you also intend to outside neck turn the brass, this is a waste of money.

For me, my hunting brass never saw more then 3 firings regardless... and that assumed no issues with over or under sizing.

YMMV

Jerry
 
Deathrawt said:
You could also back out your full length sizing due to just do the neck
I’ve never tried it but it’s supposed to work and would save you $$$ from buying a new die
Click to expand...
You can not "neck size" using a full length sizing die. PERIOD.

As the case engages the FL die the neck diameter and the shoulder diameter and the body are all being sized at the same time ... and as that is happening the shoulder commonly bulges forward a little... causing firm closing of the bolt. A neck sizing die does not size the body of the case at all.

And the #12 above post is excellent advice.
 
Thanks guys,

That adds a lot of helpful context. I ordered a Lee collet due to give a try, the cost on the others seemed pretty crazy for a trial…

Yes, I had tried to back the Hornady die out quite a lot and it didn’t make any difference, it wouldn’t in this case either… the die would be backed out so far there would be no sizing on the neck at all.

I am going to see where this goes, but I believe it will be fine, I also believe that for 3 or 4 firings there would be no issues with the brass being worked either, I was just looking for a better way.
 
BigBraz15 said:
So I have finally got through my brass and a bit of ammo and working to reload some for the 280 AI. I have a Hornady FL die and it is working the body a decent amount. I want to get some opinions on neck size dies. Are the bushing dies really worth double (or more)?

I have found a few neck dies that are standard for around $100, the bushing does anywhere from $200-400 and up.

This rifle is for hunting, not extreme accuracy. I was getting good enough accuracy at 600 yards with factory new Nosler brass that I had loaded without resizing. I have shot factory Nosler loads plus my loads in Nosler brass that hadn’t been resized into far less than an inch consistently, so not really looking to improve on that, just to maintain that and hopefully work the brass less.

Any guidance would be super helpful.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
You can't go wrong with an RCBS nso die, I use them for every bolt action rifle I own. The bushing dies just ad another layer of complexity and are not needed. The Lee collet dies do not always work as they should, gave mine away.
 
Was like a "ritual" when we were boys - our Dad required us to cycle every round through our rifle, before we left home on a deer hunt - his explanation at the time was there was no sense to carry bent or dirty or mis-sized thing that would not chamber - THAT will be the one that you will grab from pocket when you REALLY NEED one more shot!! Same with magazines - try all that you will carry - if one don't work or don't fit, leave it behind and fuss about it later - not during the "hunt".
 
Haven't had any real issues with using a neck die, although it's been mainly with 22 cal stuff, some with the 7-08 for range only rds. But, I have a neck die for every ctge, to fix case mouths with, for new cases and 1st shot, sometimes 2nd shot, to make sure cases are all filled out before bumping shoulder. I see no value in wasting time and effort lubing and delubing cases for FLS sizing on the first two shots for anything other than an autoloader, a lever or pump, and I don't own any of those, just break, falling block and bolt. As to neck sizing on the 22cals, you can tell if you need to FLS usually on 3rd or 4th sizing, as you should try few cases in the gun before loading them all. If there are a couple of "OK, I can feel that", FLS them. AS folk have said partial FLS is a 50/50 proposition, usually a few "way too tights" in there when you try them in the gun. I look at partial sizing as being the same as squeezing a long skinny balloon, lok where the air displaces to and what happens there. Bushing dies don't seem to be the answer either, what with donuts and the bushing not sizing the entire neck, creates something of a false shoulder internally which can affect seating, or at the base of the neck on the shoulder. I don't use neck sized for hunting, or stuff I want bug holes from, or would have to feed properly for a timed event.
I'd rather spend 200.00 on slightly shorter life and new cases than have a round that causes me issues feeding when out hunting, I spend more than that on gas to get there and back a few times. For gophers and range plinking or ladder loads, not worried about neck sizing.
 
guntech said:
You can not "neck size" using a full length sizing die. PERIOD.

As the case engages the FL die the neck diameter and the shoulder diameter and the body are all being sized at the same time ... and as that is happening the shoulder commonly bulges forward a little... causing firm closing of the bolt. A neck sizing die does not size the body of the case at all.

And the #12 above post is excellent advice.
Click to expand...
guntech, you are right, you can't "full neck length" size the case with an FL sizing die.

However, you can "partially size the neck, without getting close to the shoulder.

Some people don't like doing this for a couple of valid reasons, but it does work well.

I have a couple of rifles I load for with about half the neck sized down. They both have maximum chamber/neck diameters and are very hard on cases if they're full length resized.

I only resize about half the length of the neck, which doesn't allow the die to resize any of the rest of the cartridge.

It creates a small "shoulder" on the neck, which some folks just can't handle.

This can be a problem with some rifles, because the small retention area on the loaded cartridges does not hold the bullet as well, and may increase run out.

I haven't had any accuracy issues using this method, in "my rifles," and it has honestly increased accuracy slightly.

It's definitely increased cartridge longevity.

BigBraz15, there is one other way to neck size, but you still have to purchase another die.

The Lee die is relatively cheap, but quite often, if you go to your local gun shop, you can find used dies or single dies for sale.

You can purchase just the Remington 7mm Mag FL sizing die and use it to resize the necks of your cartridge.

You can alter it to sit deep enough to size the whole neck length by grinding off the bottom, so it can be seated low enough. Be careful, because the shoulder angles are different, and if you insist on seating to the shoulder, it could slightly reshape a bit of the shoulder/neck junction.

I've done this with one of my 6.5x55 chambered rifles. I used a 6.5/284 die and ground off the base for more neck contact. I've been using it for over thiry years with good success.
 
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bearhunter said:
guntech, you are right, you can't "full neck length" size the case with an FL sizing die.

However, you can "partially size the neck, without getting close to the shoulder.

Some people don't like doing this for a couple of valid reasons, but it does work well.

I have a couple of rifles I load for with about half the neck sized down. They both have maximum chamber/neck diameters and are very hard on cases if they're full length resized.

I only resize about half the length of the neck, which doesn't allow the die to resize any of the rest of the cartridge.

It creates a small "shoulder" on the neck, which some folks just can't handle.

This can be a problem with some rifles, because the small retention area on the loaded cartridges does not hold the bullet as well, and may increase run out.

I haven't had any accuracy issues using this method, in "my rifles," and it has honestly increased accuracy slightly.

It's definitely increased cartridge longevity.

BigBraz15, there is one other way to neck size, but you still have to purchase another die.

The Lee die is relatively cheap, but quite often, if you go to your local gun shop, you can find used dies or single dies for sale.

You can purchase just the Remington 7mm Mag FL sizing die and use it to resize the necks of your cartridge.

You can alter it to sit deep enough to size the whole neck length by grinding off the bottom, so it can be seated low enough. Be careful, because the shoulder angles are different, and if you insist on seating to the shoulder, it could slightly reshape a bit of the shoulder/neck junction.

I've done this with one of my 6.5x55 chambered rifles. I used a 6.5/284 die and ground off the base for more neck contact. I've been using it for over thiry years with good success.
Click to expand...

That’s interesting. I think I have a 7 mag die sent from way back stashed somewhere in a box, so if I don’t have any luck with the Lee die I will try that
 
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