Neck sizing before or after annealing?

what is the joke..? is Sunray banned? I know he has the hit-n-run Cliff Claven thing going on, but he doesn't get feisty... does he?
 
Gentlemen, let's get back to the thread!! I second the part where annealing soften the brass; for the ones who doubt that, just Google it!! I'm using my friend's Bench Source annealing machine. Here's the video:

If I neck size before annealing, would that be still providing uniform neck tension?
 
338x said:
Gentlemen, let's get back to the thread!! I second the part where annealing soften the brass; for the ones who doubt that, just Google it!! I'm using my friend's Bench Source annealing machine. Here's the video:

If I neck size before annealing, would that be still providing uniform neck tension?
Click to expand...

I'd say yes, provided you heat evenly......however, even if it's uniform neck tension, is it still THE CORRECT tension?? There's "spring back" etc to think about too.... Someone with more knowledge than me will have to answer that... Jerry? Yodave? Yomamma?
 
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338x said:
Gentlemen, let's get back to the thread!! If I neck size before annealing, would that be still providing uniform neck tension?
Click to expand...

Why chance it??? Really, I don't understand why you would do that. Logic to me says do it after if nothing else. Sizing before, with hardened brass that likely has some spring back and then annealing and expecting uniform neck tension? I'd expect the same tensions as if I hadn't bothered to anneal at all. After your next round of reloading I'd expect to see a noticeable increase in consistent neck tension as the annealed (softer) brass would all be sized using your sizing procedure.

Just my thoughts.
 
338x said:
Gentlemen, let's get back to the thread!! I second the part where annealing soften the brass; for the ones who doubt that, just Google it!! I'm using my friend's Bench Source annealing machine. Here's the video:

If I neck size before annealing, would that be still providing uniform neck tension?
Click to expand...

so long as you do it the same way everytime to achieve the same results for you and your needs, size before or after, it doesn't matter, what does matter is that you are replenishing the flexibility in the brass and getting your lot of brass all uniform.

I anneal, then run in the tumbler to clean the carbon off the cases that appears from the process, this is hard and will scratch your dies, then size, then load
 
Bigbore 35 said:
Annealing makes the neck and shoulder harder....
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bearhunter said:
UMMMM there seems to be a lot of misinformation going around.

When you heat brass and quench it the brass is normalized back to its original state. Soft. Exactly the opposite of ferrous based metals.

When you heat brass and allow it to air cool slowly or even in an insulated tub it will harden.....
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Annealing makes brass softer, not harder, whether quenched or air cooled.
Ted
 
Ok, i'm going to ask a really naive question, because I haven't received all my reading material yet... ;)

I understand the principles and execution of annealing bottleneck rifle cartridges. I think. But what of straight walled cases like a 45-70? Is annealing useful?

And the naive question: is it even possible to anneal pistol caliber cases (say, a 357 mag or 44 mag) so you could use them longer? I'm thinking the short case length would make it really difficult to anneal the mouth without softening the entire case and ruining it, but could anyone with experience chime on this?
 
Your question is not a bad one.

The straight walled cases are still stretched at firing and tightened up with reloading, so I'm inclined to say it's help.

As for your question about only heating the distal part on stubby cases, I'd say that it's doable. Some of the benchrest calibers are stubby little things, and shape won't matter much when it comes to heat transfer. Does it matter in pistol brass, or is it worthwhile?? I dunno.
 
I've been called out on spreading what seems to be a complete BS old wives tale.....

I can find no evidence whatsoever to support my statement that their are different brass alloys as you make your way from neck to base of a piece of brass.....if anyone knows of any, let us know... I do see on the Lapua website that they hint at the different properties, but they don't come out and state that it's a different metal.

So, having said that, why/how is the body and base brass different than than the neck and shoulder in terms of tolerance to heat for annealing during reloading??

I did find a cool bit of info on a cartridge mfg-ers website (Peterson) that outlines their process. The brass is stretched multiple times, with multiple annealings and washes along the way. The base gets the most "working" and the neck area the least.... Is that why it's harder toward the base??
 
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The brass in a case is the same alloy from top to bottom. Different manufacturers use slightly different alloys. The only thing that differs is the temper. Most cases start out as a coin shaped piece of brass and they go through a series of punchs that elongates the brass and turns it into a tube that is closed at one end. This tube is then machined to create the head of the case complete with the rim or the extractor groove depending on whether the case is rimmed or rimless. Each one of these operations work hardens the brass. The primer pocket is then machined and the flash hole is either punched or drilled. Both proceedures are used. The cases are then formed or sized into a particular calibre and trimmed for proper OAL. At this time the entire case is quite hard from being work hardened. This is good for the case head so the primer pocket does not expand when the loaded cartridge is fired. However the neck and shoulder area must be softer so it can readily expand to make a good gas seal between the outside of the case neck and the chamber of the rifle it is fired in. So the neck and shoulder must be annealed or made softer. The neck and shoulder is heated and then quenched to soften the brass in that area. Some manufacturers polish the cases enough to remove the colours on the neck and shoulder others do not. Once a case has been fired and reloaded a number of times they work harden and necks may split rendering the case useless. If you keep your cases segregated in groups that have all been fired/reloaded when you see the first few cases with split necks it is time to anneal the rest. I don't wait for split necks, I load and fire cases 5 times then I anneal them. Using safe loads and with annealing I have obtained 20 + firings with some cases. From reading some responses about when to resize (before or after annealing) I re-size after. One resize operation does NOT work harden that case back to hard state you had before you annealed. It takes about 5 firings and resizings.
 
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