Ed - it sounds like you're where I was 15 months ago....asking good questions, but unknowingly opening a proverbial can of worms. FL vs. Neck only is a long lasting debate, likely never to be settled.
Welcome to the world of overthinking the living sh!t out of everything!!!!
Be safe.
GGG
Yes. Sounds very familiar.
For me personally, after working up nice loads for three separate rifles, the neck sized cases have consistently been more accurate. That's not to say I couldn't make great ammo out of FL sized stuff but IME the neck sized was simply better. All the reading on the net couldn't change my opinion after the results I produced myself. You have to try both for yourself and see what works for you as this is a topic that will never be settled.
Same here.
The collet neck die is a wonderful neck sizer and I prefer it over others.
I do suggest you also include a way to control the headspace growth that will eventually happen. I prefer to use a Redding body die to bump the shoulder.
As GGG said, the FL vs NS debate rages on... the answer is very simple but mostly overlook. You size the case "enough" for proper function under the tasks and firearm choosen.
Dies are merely tools to manipulate to get the end result you want... There is no one right answer....
It is like having a debate on flat head vs phillips screw drivers... I would personally just use the tool that fit the screw head... but that is just me.
YMMV.
Jerry
This has worked for me. There was no mentor for me to learn from and the concept of reloading seem daunting at the time. Albeit 2 operations, it's an easy concept to grasp and put into practice for someone that's never reloaded before. The other die systems, at that point in time, had too much going on. I feared the ability to troubleshoot the necessary adjustments with other die systems.
Now I understand the forster/RCBS die does all combination that BigEd explains very well. Perhaps now investing in this die system, which was more expensive at the time, is a consideration. At that time, jumping off into reloading spending higher dollars on something that I was not convinced of, was a consideration. Perhaps there are others that are traveling the same road?
I share the same philosophy with the work I do and have now gained some experience and related measurement tooling to put any concerns to bed. The process is running extremely well and much better than ever anticipated. (This is bad news because somewhere in my future lies an accuracy rifle. This stuff is way too addictive for me.
)
Mystic Precision
I have several Lee collet dies and can't make myself like them, sorry.
What you are doing is full length resizing from the neck down with the body die and then using the Lee collet die to size the neck. (two sizing operations)
And a Forster full length benchrest die will do the same thing in a single operation. And if needed Forster will hone the necks of their dies to your desired diameter
Kevin Thomas of Team Lapua USA full length resizes his cases and was Jim Hulls replacement at the Sierra ballistics test lab.
I first read about the rat t u r d in the violin case at German Salazar web page and then from Kevin Thomas and both of them knew the late Jim Hull.
I'm not a mystic or very precision any more, I drink too much coffee and have the start of cataracts.
What I am saying is the average shooter with a off the shelf factory rifle is better off full length resizing.
And since I have been using Forster full length benchrest dies runout is never a problem.
The culprit is cheaper Remchester brass that doesn't have uniform case wall and neck thickness. When this type cases are fired in a SAAMI chamber they become egg shaped and warp. (warped banana shaped case)
And these warped cases destroy your accuracy and when full length resized they reduce the chance of the bullet being out of alignment with the bore.
Bottom line, too much of what benchrest shooters do filters down to the average Joe with a off the shelf factory rifle and is simply not needed.
My 2 cents and assorted Craftsman screw drivers.
I appreciate the experience speaking in your posts BigEd. I was caught in the "Remchester" category trying to make Federal brass work for some measure of accuracy but the brass inconsistencies almost made me give up. I couldn't get any accuracy improvement due to sooo much case variability, hardness included. I'm sure that you can appreciate that there is a demographic of hunters that has kept brass for years thinking that one day they may reload. Today I am thankful for starting with lesser quality brass because it's made me better at this game and understand the quality of brass.
I've made my mistakes and have learned from them, some pretty concerning for novices, but thanks to yourself and others who have answered the most elementary of questions, we now have success. I fully agree with you that some of the bench rest stuff creeps in that perhaps isn't necessary for the average joe. There is likely very many that reload for the savings alone and are not to concerned about any accuracy improvement. For myself, because there was marginal improvement over factory, I needed to go deeper to resolve the disappointing results. The every step in the evolution became more advanced.
In my case I'm not sure that working with remchester brass and dies that required a few adjustments and good reloading comprehension as a novice would have been successful. Perhaps I'm an exception to the rule. Ed I can say now that I'd give the die setup you are using a good go!
In summary, I believe each reloader starts down their own path meandering away. Some go into the rhubarb and others have no trouble staying straight right out of the gate. Each reloader is unique as a bolt action rifle with it's individual pressure limits. In my opinion reloaders, like rifles can be grouped together, but reloading is a great example to explain that "this way" or "that way" cannot be applied unilaterally
The bench rest stuff is available for those that want it. You and Jerry are on opposite sides of the fl vs neck size topic and very likely have the same result, reloaders can decide for themselves.
Regards Ed
Ron
