Need .303 SMLE advice

Saw a Trials Number 4, 1931, at the Brandon Gun Show a few years ago. Dealer didn't realise how incredibly fqqn rare the thing is, let it go for $325!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh well, at least I got to drool on it.
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Hello,
I was also wondering if I could get some advice with respect to the Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 marked "US Property" in the attached photo. What is a fair value for such a rifle in very good condition in all aspects so the both a reasonable seller and purchaser would be satisfied with the transaction? These guns seem to be excellent in so many ways from the rifle itself to the brass butt plate to the tasteful and well done non-military furniture and yet they strike me as being undervalued by the market place. The thoughtful consideration of the resident experts here is very valued and appreciated.
IMG_2951d.jpg

IMG_2951c.jpg

Thanks and regards,

TacticalFlash
 
smellie said:
The true SMLE is the old Number 1 rifle, properly termed the Short, Magazine Lee-Enfield. The vast bulk are the Mark III and Mark III* models and the overwhelming bulk of those were made during the First World War and are dated 1914 through 1918. Early-Wartime rifles command a premium because it took some time to ramp production up. Pre-War rifles are very scarce and are dated 1907 through 1913. This rifle was produced again in England during the Second War and often is found with bewildering markings due to the "Dispersals" production scheme. Very early wartime rifles (1940) can be marked BSA.

The SMLE is identified by the open rear sight partway down the barrel. Identifying information is found under the bolt handle. About 60% were made at Enfield, about 30% by BSA, about 5% by London Small Arms (LSA) and 2 or 3% each by Standard Small Arms (SSA) and National Rifle Factory (NRF). AUSTRALIA manufactured this rifle from 1912 (1912 is very rare) through to about 1956; they are marked LITHGOW. INDIA manufactured this rifle from 1913 through to at least 1968; they are marked ISHAPORE or GRI.

Under the Bolt Handle, you will find the Royal Signet, place of manufacture, date of manufacture and precise Model of the rifle. NRF and SSA rifles have only a weird-looking Crown; the factory mark is on the left side of the action, just to the left of the bolt body.

Prices seem to start about $300 and go up from there. For a good, solid, clean original rifle, expect to pay about $400 or more. Eats standard .303 ammo, 10-round mag, the fastest and toughest bolt rifle ever built.

As any rifle, the BORE is critical, much moreso than many other factors. Look for sharp, deep grooves and sharp lands. Rifling is 5 grooves, left-hand, 1 turn in 10 inches.

EARLY SMLE rifles were made between 1902 and 1907 and are VERY hard to find, especially in original condition. These include the Mark I, I*, I**, I***. There was no Mark 2 in .303; the Mark II was a .22". There ARE "Converted Mark IV" SMLE rifles, made up from old Boer War rifles, and they are super-scarce. They are only about 1 in 3000 o actual production.

There are more than 100 variants of the SMLE rifle so, whatever you pick, do get back to us. They ALL have a story to tell. Look for a tiny stamp on the Receiver Ring of a little arrow in a capital letter C: this denotes a Canadian-used rifle for sure.

AFTER the Great War, development continued on the Lee rifle. The Mark V was built in 1922 and 1924 only, super rare: rceiver sight, special handguard, extra barrel-band. The Mark VI had the muzzle exposed for about 2 inches (previous rifles were stocked up RIGHT to the muzzle), a checkered fore-end, a rear-sight mounted above the bolt and all were made at Enfield in very small numbers in the late 1920s through to 1931. In 1931 this was standardised as the NUMBER 4 RIFLE and was the standard for new rifles made during War Two. There were three factories in England nd they were made in the USA (Savage) and Canada (Long Branch) as well. Of the 5 plants, likely the Long Branch rifles for any year are the best. Barrels may be anything from 2 (quite common), 4, 5 (mostly) and 6 grooves. Same ammo. Truly GREAT rifles. Easy to put a scope onto, too, if you are careful. PRICES start around 300 or so, up to 450 or 500 for a really nice one. The SNIPER was the Number 4 Mark 1(T) and they sell in the $3600-$4000 range with scope, case and accessories.

ANY of them are MUCH too good.... and too much fun..... NOT to shoot.

Have fun!

(My fingers are tired now! I wonder why......)
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Just saw a 1901 LE no1 posted for sale claimed to be Excellent Condition for $475 Here is the Link: http://www.firearmscanada.com/ads/1901-lee-enfield-rifle-for-sale/
TacticalFlash
 
TacticalFlash said:
Hello,
I was also wondering if I could get some advice with respect to the Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 marked "US Property" in the attached photo. What is a fair value for such a rifle in very good condition in all aspects so the both a reasonable seller and purchaser would be satisfied with the transaction? These guns seem to be excellent in so many ways from the rifle itself to the brass butt plate to the tasteful and well done non-military furniture and yet they strike me as being undervalued by the market place. The thoughtful consideration of the resident experts here is very valued and appreciated.
IMG_2951d.jpg

IMG_2951c.jpg

Thanks and regards,

TacticalFlash
Click to expand...

I dont think i would pay any more than $200 for a bubba'd enfield. I suggest buying the real deal for a 375-400 in the end you'll be much happier.
 
That Savage No 4 has a cut barrel. It's a $150 hunting rifle at best. Because the end of the barrel was lopped off in the sporterizing process it can never be economically restored to full military.

Savages are less valued in Canada than some others for some reason even at the best of times.


TacticalFlash said:
Hello,
I was also wondering if I could get some advice with respect to the Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 marked "US Property" in the attached photo. What is a fair value for such a rifle in very good condition in all aspects so the both a reasonable seller and purchaser would be satisfied with the transaction? These guns seem to be excellent in so many ways from the rifle itself to the brass butt plate to the tasteful and well done non-military furniture and yet they strike me as being undervalued by the market place. The thoughtful consideration of the resident experts here is very valued and appreciated.

IMG_2951d.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Yeah I agree with the above... I actually have a sporterized Savage made "US Property" No.4 myself that I picked up for $150. Mismatching everything but receiver dates to roughly 1943. Kind of an impulse buy but it was in really good shape with little wear. Most importantly, the barrel was NOT cut and sights are still there, so I could de-sporterize it if I wanted to with just a few front end parts.
 
TacticalFlash said:
Just saw a 1901 LE no1 posted for sale claimed to be Excellent Condition for $475 Here is the Link: http://www.firearmscanada.com/ads/1901-lee-enfield-rifle-for-sale/
TacticalFlash
Click to expand...

Be VERY, VERY careful dealing with Firearms Canada. It has a bad reputation for scams. I would not deal with them, period.
 
A true "Irish Contract" No4 MkII could very well be new - they were some of the last Lee's made. I sold a one a few years ago that was still in its wrapper, so they are out there. Still $850 for one that isn't wrapped is a tad on the high side - more like $700 would be reasonable. Incidently, Irish Contract Lees never went to Ireland - they were built for Ireland, but the Irish backed out before delivery, the date on an "IC" should be around 1954 with the first 2 letters PF, all of these rifles were made at Fazakerly. The quality (as well as the condition) are generally excellent, possibly the best ever made, but they aren't all that popular due to not having seen any action. By the way, given the length of service and the conditions of service, and the production history of the LE, it's virtually impossible to know everything. I used to own a No5 that 2 local "experts" told me didn't exist, because it was made 6 months after the factory was ordered to stop making them. There are few, if any, absolutes with the LE. If you get the bug really bad, you need to be on Milsurps dot com - many of the good folks here, and some amazing resources from around the world are there, and incredibly helpful.
 
A 1901 LE I* is not an SMLE.

The "S" is for SHORT.

This will be a regular Magazine Lee-Enfield, built from about 1896 through 1901 or 1902. It will have a 30.2" barrel as opposed to the 25.2" tube of the SMLE and it will have the "flag" safety on the Bolt rather than a safety on the Body of the rifle. This was the production version of the Lee-Enfield during the Second Boer War.

When the Short rifle came in, the older rifles were replaced in front-line use. Over the next few years, many were converted to CLLEs: Charger-Loading Lee-Enfields. A few even were rebuilt to SMLE specs and are the rare SMLE Converted Mark IV. Many were let go as surplus following the Great War. Once in awhile you will come across one which has been altered more-or-less to Short Rifle specifications but which still retained the HEAVY barrel (the Short Rifle used a lighter barrel); most of these are target rifles or century-old Bubbas.

Hope this helps.
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