Need a long range rifle

smokingunn

Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
I want a long range gun, i am fairly new to the long range shooting and am looking for advice on what to buy, i currently own a browning a bolt in 7mm rem mag. I have pretty much narrowed it down to a trg 42 or a timberwolf, i have heard nothing good said about the 408 chey tac. Any advice would be great.
 
No bull s**t here i'm afraid, just lookin for some good advice, anything i have managed to find about the 408 is not good, the 338 lapua seems to be far superior choice. Its a matter of picking between the timberwolf and trg
 
"...408 chey tac..." The biggest thing is the cost of custom ammo/brass. Mind you, .338 Lapua isn't cheap either. Using either will limit the number and type of matches you can shoot in. A lot don't allow magnums of any kind.
$7500Cdn is a great deal of money for a rifle with limited uses and expensive ammo/brass.
 
The actual 408 Cheytac is prohib in Canada. It looks too scary. Forget about the 408. There are more actions on the market then just PGW and Sako you know and for a hell of lot less then what those guns are going for. As far as accuracy. You might as well get a custom gun built if you're looking to drop 7 large. Manufactured guns are exactly that. They are cut to manufacture tolerences. Granded, upper level guns like the ones you're talking about have tighter tolerances when why go standard 338 when you can go AI? Why seller for a standard trigger when you can go jewel? Barrel twist becomes important when you're looking at reaching out past 1000yds. I really don't see the point in shooting a low BC bullet the drops off like the 250gr MK when you can launch a 300gr or a 325gr at about the same velocity.
 
There are some downsides to the Chey Tac but the situation remains that way for numerous reasons of which costs and ammunition/reloading component availability are at the top.

I would say costs aren't generally out of line when compared to using other large and specialized cartridges such as .50 BMG, or any of the more common big bore Weatherby offerings for example.

The Chey Tac case itself is really not that expensive. It's $1.90 US each. Compare that to what .338 Lapua brass is going for and you'll easily see it's less. The .408 case itself is being used for a variety of wildcats and that approach seems to be gaining popularity as time goes on. One such wildcat is the .375/.408 Chey Tac which in my mind is far more practical since the calibre itself is readily available though the production of high BC bullets is literally in i'ts infancy at this stage.

Sure, importing components might be a pain in the ass, but it would be worth it in the long run, especially if you order say 200-350 pieces of brass for the life of the gun.

FWIW, the .408 cal. itself is in danger of going extinct with the recent closure of Lost River Ballistics, practically the sole provider for long range bullets in this calibre. I don't know if TTI Armory (Google it) will be able to support the demand for reloading components yet. Only time will tell.

For obvious reasons, the more practical long range cartridge would be the .338 Lapua. It's been around for quite some time now and reloading components, while pricey, are readily available in Canada.

Reportedly, there's other companies starting to push the envelope of .338 calibre design as it gains even further popularity among shooters. Check out the thread on the new bullets being tested by Richard Graves of Wildcat Bullets in Alberta. Some great work being done in this area.

For whatever reason, 250gr. Lapua Scenar bullets seem to be far more readily available in this calibre than the Sierra Match Kings in either 250gr. or 300gr. I don't know of any company bringing the 300's in on a regular basis as they're expensive and no store likes to stock specialized components unless they have customers who buy them on a regular basis.

Between the Timberwolf and TRG-42? Well, were talking roughly $7,500 vs. $2,800 so, you tell me? The Timberwolf is a beautiful rifle and reportedly very well built. However, you could easily build your own custom rifle in .338 Lapua for a fraction of the cost of a PGW.

The TRG-42 is a great platform with a well desrved reputation for being a high quality, out of the box set up. The Finnish Army is saying the TRG is capable of accurate barrel life in the 6,000 round range. Holy cow!

Some people will complain that the TRG's barrel is only a 1/12" twist but so what? Generally, the 250 gr. bullets will likely be the bullet of choice due to costs and availability considerations. However, if you're that stuck on shooting +300 gr. weight bullets, then buy a 1/10" twist barrel and have it chambered/installed on your TRG-42 and you'll still be miles ahead of the Timberwolf in price alone.

For me, it would be either a TRG-42 or a custom rifle built by a competent gunsmith using a Barney Lawton action and a 30"-32" long 1/10" twist barrel in a MacMillan stock probably an A2 or A4. For me, a single shot configuration is more practical, especially if the long sleek +300 gr. bullets might be used, as the OAL quickly exceeds the dimensions of an internal or external magazine.

As you can see, there's lots of choices and things to consider here. Of course the big question is, do you have a place wide open enough to truly take advantage of what ballistics potential these long range chamberings have to offer?
 
The actual 408 Cheytac is prohib in Canada. It looks too scary. Forget about the 408. There are more actions on the market then just PGW and Sako you know and for a hell of lot less then what those guns are going for. As far as accuracy. You might as well get a custom gun built if you're looking to drop 7 large. Manufactured guns are exactly that. They are cut to manufacture tolerences. Granded, upper level guns like the ones you're talking about have tighter tolerances when why go standard 338 when you can go AI? Why seller for a standard trigger when you can go jewel? Barrel twist becomes important when you're looking at reaching out past 1000yds. I really don't see the point in shooting a low BC bullet the drops off like the 250gr MK when you can launch a 300gr or a 325gr at about the same velocity.

I don't know about the Chey Tac being prohibited here in Canada. It might not be easy getting one out of the US but is it actually prohibited by Order in Council or law?

Yup, custom may very well be the way to go.

Hmm...I wouldn't knock the TRG-42's trigger. It's very adjustable and end users seem to be extremely happy with it.

1,000 yds. is barely a chip shot for a .338 Lapua. Heavy +300 gr. bullets aren't necessary at that relatively short distance. Do some ballistics tables for a 250gr. Scenar and 300 SMK for 1,000 yds. and show me where the great advantage lies. Wind drift is greater for the 250 Scenar but not overly so. Come-ups aren't going to be an issue here.

It would be a tough choice, for me, to decide between an AI and a Timberwolf, however, my decision would be for the AI. FWIW, the AI is not a match grade gun and I doubt the tollerances are any closer compared to either a TRG-42 or Timberwolf.

By the very nature of what the gun will be used for and the extremes of environment and useage/abuse they will see in the field, these guns have to be built a little loose to ensure proper fuction and reliability. Match rifles don't usually fare well when they get dirty or are subjected to extreme use.

Regarding the 250 SMK's, you have a good point. They don't have a stunning reputation do they? I've heard some very mixed results about them. Some say they're great while others claim they aren't up to snuff at ranage.
 
Might not be the advice you want to hear but you do mention being new to LR shooting so why start at the end where experience is paramount to extracting the most performance.

If you are interested in LR shooting, then trigger time is of paramount concern. So is learning how to reload.

The easiest and arguably best starter is the 223 in a fast twist. You will have no issue shooting out to 1000yds which is far for many novice shooters.

A Savage HB 9 twist pushing 75gr Amax is a formidable rifle despite the dirt cheap pricing.

If going custom, what better cartridge then the 6BR also in a fast twist. Now dominating many classes out to 600m and very competitive out to 1000yds.

The big boomers are wonderful and a hoot to shoot but noise and recoil negate any benefits to the novice.

In time, if all you want is a superb LR plinker, a 7RM pushing 180gr Bergers at 3000fps is pretty hard to beat. How about mechanical accuracy enough to drop 3 to 5 into the bottom of a coffee cup?

Jerry
 
Long range what... competition? Gongs? Hunting? Also, what do you consider long range? 600M can be hit with much lighter and economical calibres than 408, which like the 50 is an exercise in lobbing $10.00 bills down range. Also, there is the issue of what ranges will let you use them. By now you know the difficulty in even getting 408 components...

If you have - and intend to spend - the money on the rifles you mention, then you have many choices. If you like financial and physical pain, go with the big magnums, (accurizing/customizing your existing 7mm would work fantastic) if you would like to literally get more bangs for the buck, look at the many 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm offerings in proven long range cartridges.

In the end you have to be happy with what you got. I am not into looking like a 250 pound hunk of relish shooting a rifle, so "tactical" and black rifles aren't my thing... they may be yours and that's cool. It is all about having fun and to hell with what anyone else thinks. A shytty day of shooting is still far better than a great day of working.
 
Last edited:
I don't know about the Chey Tac being prohibited here in Canada. It might not be easy getting one out of the US but is it actually prohibited by Order in Council or law?


Yup, custom may very well be the way to go.

Hmm...I wouldn't knock the TRG-42's trigger. It's very adjustable and end users seem to be extremely happy with it.

1,000 yds. is barely a chip shot for a .338 Lapua. Heavy +300 gr. bullets aren't necessary at that relatively short distance. Do some ballistics tables for a 250gr. Scenar and 300 SMK for 1,000 yds. and show me where the great advantage lies. Wind drift is greater for the 250 Scenar but not overly so. Come-ups aren't going to be an issue here.



It would be a tough choice, for me, to decide between an AI and a Timberwolf, however, my decision would be for the AI. FWIW, the AI is not a match grade gun and I doubt the tollerances are any closer compared to either a TRG-42 or Timberwolf.

By the very nature of what the gun will be used for and the extremes of environment and useage/abuse they will see in the field, these guns have to be built a little loose to ensure proper fuction and reliability. Match rifles don't usually fare well when they get dirty or are subjected to extreme use.


Regarding the 250 SMK's, you have a good point. They don't have a stunning reputation do they? I've heard some very mixed results about them. Some say they're great while others claim they aren't up to snuff at ranage.

Good point; if you're into a 1000 -1200yds, search no further but honestly, I was out shooting at 1000yds today (and I"ll be posting pics). Once you've zero'd you're going to move back further and further till you run out of velocity or elevation.

I know of a gunsmith in Calgary that looked into buying one for a customer and could NOT, just like the 416Barrett.

I agree that for battle purposes the chambering has to be loser then a custom cut chamber but unless you're taking your gun off to war, I would think everyone would choose to get a tightly cut chamber.

The idea of rechambering a TRG after you've had fun shooting it is a good idea.
 
Last edited:
Picture268.jpg

Picture265.jpg

1000yds
Picture272.jpg

This rock got hammered at 850yds which was no match for the 300gr SMK.
 
What is the 75gr amax? Is it the brand of bullet if you are reloading? I could do a search and probably will but it is just as easy to ask here.
 
Glock, nice pics man. Where are you shooting at? Private land no doubt? Looks like an ideal location. You could probalby use some tarp or furniture blanket underneath you to make you more comfy.

I've often thought of using the bed of a 1/2 ton truck with plywood on the floor as a platform to shoot from.
 
Last edited:
nice pics, i checked out a 338-378 weatherby accumark today, it was definetly a nice rifle, not sure what the ballistics are like for it yet though.
 
-The 75gr Amax is from Hornady.

-The land is private. The owner allows myself and HWSNBN to test out our rifles without being being bothered. The road isn't flat but we shoot mostly off of a moveable tri-based shooting bench. I prefer prone and as we get out past a 1000yds I can shoot off the ground. I was shooting off of a blanket but it didn't match anything in the picture so I pulled it.

- My use of yards vs meters is strickly because that's what I'm used to. I don't own a tape measure with centemeters and when I pace off distance it's not 99cm x (however the f*ck far I walk). My crono doesn't doesn't tell me how many cm/second my bullet is flying and yes I still go by miles/gallon. Since I deal with Americans regularly, I'm not going to confuse the issue by going there so let's not.

-The gun I'm running is a custom Nesika with a left bolt/right port. It's a weird concept but if you're right handed and the port is on the left side, you can dump the rounds in your hand such as I do with my right port.
 
Back
Top Bottom