Need Advice - G17 Gen4 Erratic Accuracy

If it shoots fine for 60 and then goes to crap then it can't be mechanical.

Either the barrel is so badly fouled that accuracy is affected or user error of operation

If the gun was faulty then it wouldnt shoot ok for 60 rounds
 
1-It's not a recoil spring problem, The bullet already exited the barrel when the recoil spring come in action. A bad recoil spring wil give you cycling problems, not accuracy problems.
2-If the OP shoot only factory load (most likely only plated or jacketed bullets) i doubt it's a barrel fouling problem. I often shoot 2-3k rounds of plated bullets befor a good clean of the gun, and even there it will show little to no fouling inside the barrel.
3-The 8'' "groups" at 15 yards is a clear signal that the OP need some serious practices. Someone with experience can watch you shoot and give you some advice as what to correct in your technique.
Solution: Let an experience Glock shooter try your gun and you will see that there is no problem with it.

Note: I am not bashing, just trying to help.
 
Avenida said:
on the other hand, 8" groups at 15 yards/meters is not a good starting point either, this means that anything beyond this point will keep spreading, so it might not be the gun, but in order to be sure the only way is to reduce your distance.
When you know that the gun can group at 3 yards, and this is all the shots touching together no more than half an inch, move the target one yard away from you and so on, do this until you can group consistently at 7 yards/meters, when your groupings are this accurate at 7, keep moving one yard at the time, then you will have a more accurate reading at 15.
If you suck at 3-4-5 -6 or 7 yards you can't expect much at 15, it is the nature of the beast. On your first post I assumed you have those distances covered, if not my bad and I would recommend reducing the distances.
Cheers!
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^^^ this

Try to group at 3y and 5y. Of you can't group at theses distances it's probably not the gun but the shooter. At 3 or 5y even if the gun have à problem it should group. If there is no visible issue with the gun It's probably the shooter.....

That's possible that the gun have a problem, but it's very rare and before saying that the gun have problem, I would ask a good experienced shooter to try it. Not average Joe at the range....a very good shooter.

Good luck
 
silverfoxdj said:
I stopped blaming the gun 6 months ago ..it's me..:)
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I bet you're a better shooter for it. :cheers:

It's always us. When my gun shoots 8" 'groups' at 20m, I dry fire for a bit, and voila, the gun miraculously tightens up.
Some guns are easier to shoot than others. Glocks are very good at pointing out our trigger control problems, because in order for them to be accurate, one must be perfect on the trigger pull.


I have nothing to prove, but I do get a kick out of tight groups with a stock gun... :D


OP:
wicked-police may not be here to hold your hand and pat your head, but he's given you solid info. I'd take the advice for what it's worth over trying to fix a gun that isn't broken.


Buy some dummy rounds, and load 1 or 2 in every mag you shoot.
If the sights dip or pull when it goes "click", then it's you pulling your shots just before the trigger break.

Front sight, front sight, front sight, front sight....Presssssssssssssssssssss.
And don't say "now" to yourself when your sight picture looks good. Smooth press to the rear, always.
And... call your shots. Eventually you'll be able to put a lot of mental focus on that front sight, and you will be able to tell when your shot hit just by watching where the front sight goes.


Good luck sorting it out!
 
wicked_police said:
Second, It's not a problem with the gun.
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I'm kinda leaning this way too, especially since the OP states "The last few times I've had my G17 out, something happens after ~30-60 rds through it."

Shooter fatigue may be an issue, maybe some visual distortion from heat waves.
~ Try to maintain as consistent a grip as possible.
~ Hold the trigger to the rear until recoil subsides.
~ Use as small an aiming point as possible, and use a 6-o'clock sight picture.

graydog said:
If you haven't got anything good to say don't say anything at all.
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I understand what you're saying, but my experience has been that shooter error is the number one cause of malfunctions and poor accuracy.

And the OP did say - "Hoping someone here can help me out with this strange problem. ... haven't found anything like this, any help greatly appreciated!" He wanted ANY help, he didn't ask for just kind words and a pat on the back.

Joey Ice Cream, if it's just kind words and a pat on the back you're after, say so and I'll edit this post.
 
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metcalfe said:
I bet you're a better shooter for it. :cheers:

It's always us. When my gun shoots 8" 'groups' at 20m, I dry fire for a bit, and voila, the gun miraculously tightens up.
Some guns are easier to shoot than others. Glocks are very good at pointing out our trigger control problems, because in order for them to be accurate, one must be perfect on the trigger pull.


I have nothing to prove, but I do get a kick out of tight groups with a stock gun... :D


OP:
wicked-police may not be here to hold your hand and pat your head, but he's given you solid info. I'd take the advice for what it's worth over trying to fix a gun that isn't broken.


Buy some dummy rounds, and load 1 or 2 in every mag you shoot.
If the sights dip or pull when it goes "click", then it's you pulling your shots just before the trigger break.

Front sight, front sight, front sight, front sight....Presssssssssssssssssssss.
And don't say "now" to yourself when your sight picture looks good. Smooth press to the rear, always.
And... call your shots. Eventually you'll be able to put a lot of mental focus on that front sight, and you will be able to tell when your shot hit just by watching where the front sight goes.


Good luck sorting it out!
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Somewhat better not much.. your BANG on (see what I did there :))

Playing with Glocks is not for the faint of heart or the impatient. When I think I'm good shooting my other guns, I pickup my Glock and learn some humility.

Hey it's a Service pistol not a bullseye tool. Hat's off to anyone who can shoot small groups with it at 20 yds.
 
There have been reports of Cops having shoot outs with suspects at say 15 - 20 feet and they empty the magazines at each other and never hit anything. Heat of the moment, adrenalin and stress all have their factors in causing accuracy problems.

A simple test would be to have another person shoot the pistol and compare.

A buddy of mine thought he had an issue with his Smith M&P 9mm. He handed it to me and my pattern was all over the place. It took me about 50 rounds to sort it out. Here is what I did:

I started at 10 feet from the target and shot a mag, then another. backed up to 20 feet and shot another magazine, until I got to 50 feet from the target. At about the 50 round mark, I was used to the overly hevy M&P trigger. My grouping started to tighten up.

Sometimes with pistols, its better to start close and use a target that lets you see where you are shooting. Then start to back up and see how you do.
 
after a couple of round through a handgun with a regular barrel, the heat can cause the metal to expand which
sometimes results in your shots becoming less accurate. from what i was told, and read(so take it for what its worth)
thicker barrels like bull barrels or revolvers that have ppc stuff going on(basically more metal, more thickness more metal
to expand).

with my experience with polymers i felt i shot well at the beginning but my grip loosened afterwards from lighter frame(maybe thats an excuse
but i felt it was harder to keep stable after recoil). i have to cop that on to grip fatigue as well because i feel i can handle a metal frame 1911
better than a polymer
 
Try WP's advice and wear plugs and a headset, take away a bit of the noise distraction will help you focus on the sights and trigger squeeze.
 
I fail to understand how WP's post is a flame? It's 100 percent correct. Read the OP's post, iit's pretty clear that it's not the gun but the shooter. People need to learn to read. He didn't say the shooter was an idiot, or insult him, he simply implied it's him that is causing the bad shots.
 
Slavex said:
I fail to understand how WP's post is a flame? It's 100 percent correct. Read the OP's post, iit's pretty clear that it's not the gun but the shooter. People need to learn to read. He didn't say the shooter was an idiot, or insult him, he simply implied it's him that is causing the bad shots.
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++1
 
you're getting fatigued, get another shooter to try. At that point you're probably jerking it downwards to compensate for recoil and missing the target.
 
I know for a fact that I'm terrible with my G22. I can shoot great groups all day with a CZ SP-01 Shadow but then I pick up my G22 and make a total mess of 2x2 target stands and the range. I know its me.. Glocks have a tricky trigger in experience. I haven't given up on it yet and want to spend more time working on it. I'd recommend the same.
 
Sorry for the late reply, I've been out of town and haven't had a chance to check in here.

I really appreciate all the replies here... and for the record I never said I was skilled or anything close to it - in fact if you were to ask me I would call myself a complete novice. I guess poor terminology may be to blame so to set the record straight:

I generally put all rounds shot into an 8" circle, my groupings for the most part are somewhat better but I definitely have fliers. The metal brush I use is brass in case anyone cares.

I also agree that the gun is most likely the last thing to blame, that is why I had much better shooters than me try it and shoot it from a rest, etc to try and be sure it wasn't just my skill (or lack thereof). Believe me, I assumed it was me before others experienced the exact same thing.

Lastly, I don't need a pat on the back but just because I'm a newer shooter doesn't mean I'm completely clueless. That being said, I will take it out again and do enough testing to determine 100% that it is/is not me.

Not out to joust with anyone, just want to fix my gun or myself

Lastly, here is someone who has had a similar experience (FWIW)

w w w.glockforum.net/forum/glock-troubleshooting-maintenance/1356-glock-34-loses-accuracy.html

Thanks again for all the responses
 
You might be succumbing to a phenomenon I call "Slowly learning how to un-shoot the gun."

I'm not trying to have a go either, just what I call it. Some people call it shooters fatigue.

It happens to me all the time. I get to the range, I shoot really great, then I go off, shoot a diff' gun, come back to the first gun, and I suck.
I know it's not the gun.

Sometimes, when I first pick up the gun, how I hold it is fresh in my mind and I'm concentrating properly, then after I've shot other guns and been away from it a while, I forget a bit and don't do as well.

In other cases, because I don't take my first go as seriously, as if like a warm up, I'm not trying too hard and I do great. Then after, I may be trying too hard and suck.

Meanwhile, there is the OPPOSITE of shooter fatigue. Like at the gym, you are weak at the beginning of your workout, but all fired up and at your best at the end of the workout.
The muscles in your arm are a bit weak at first and you aren't gripping as hard, then after a while, the muscles get warmed up, and later, your gripping much harder without realizing it. A case of not knowing your own strength and end up over gripping.

I'm no expert. I do have a fair amount of trigger time, tho'. Mostly just brainstorming my theories on whats going on when it happens to me. Something to think about.
 
The "problem" with striker fired 'safe action' pistols is that they are very much their own beast. You could give a very experienced 1911 shooter a factory Glock and watch him or her drop ten rounds slow fire low and left. Anything that could cause a pistol to throw rounds all over the target should be immediately apparent to a visual inspection, frankly the only thing that I can think of that could possibly do this would be a fractured frame rail or slide rail. In the absence of that, it's likely to be a shooter issue. Truth be told, WP and Slavex are trained beyond the level of 99% of all shooters in this country (professional or otherwise) in the use of this type of pistol, if either one told me I was the issue, I'd be going back over everything to find out what I'm doing wrong, and I've been shooting for more than 35 years.
 
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NAA said:
While some may not like the info or manner of delivery thereof, WP does know his stuff when it comes to pistol shooting.

:canadaFlag:
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NAA.
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My first thought on reading the OP was "no problem with the pistol". Sounds like the new shooter gets tired after 30-60 rounds and starts jerking the trigger or overcompensating for recoil. It's really a very common issue, that you will see on any public range. If you can't shoot a 3 inch group at 10 yards, you can't shoot anywhere consistent enough to know if there is an accuracy problem with the handgun. Find a friend or range member who can consistently shoot this well and have them shoot the pistol. dollars to donuts the problem goes away. In 10 years of teaching, i've yet to find a handgun that wouldn't shoot acceptably
 
On the off chance that all the other excellet advice given doesn't help, it is possible that there is something wrong with the barrel temper. I had an AR barrel with that issue, shot fine for 10 rounds then opened up to something I could only describe as a directionally encouraged pattern. I was at a loss for ideas of the issue, when I sent it back to the manufacturer they tested it, let me know about the problem and refunded my money as they had no more in stock at the time.
 
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