Need advice on how to interpret the results from my last range day.

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attila_koko

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Hope you guys can help me out, because as of now I can only guess what might be the problem here. Just for starter, I am still in the process of working up my loads so this is not my final loads by any means, but before continuing with my load development I need to sort this out. First off I have a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .308, barrel length 26" twist rate 1:12". I recently upgraded the stock to a B&C A5 which was also bedded(by a gunsmith). My trigger pull is set at 2.5lb(factory trigger). Scope Vortex 6-24x50 FFP with the new reticle EBR-2C MOA. Viper rings were used, torqued to specs.
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I was testing two different projectile here the 168gr and the 155 gr bullets both from Hornady, they both had a similar horizontal stringing issues so it definitely not the bullets or the load itself, but more my shooting technic or the lack of. After each shot I lost sight of my target, so my rifle does not recoil back as it should. I was shooting from a bench rest same set up as in the picture above. This was the first time I tried out my new set up, the stock has a lot of adjustment options LOP, cheek weld and canting of the butt plate. My question is how can I fix this horizontal stringing issue, is it my trigger pull? I would like to hear your input on this, any help would be much appreciated.


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I'm no expert but with some dry firing you should be able to see if your pulling your shots.

If you blink when dry firing then your flinching. Dry fire until you don't blink.

If your not blinking then you should be able to watch yourself move the cross hair right before the shot brakes. Again dry fire until your rock steady.
 
After each shot, make sure you push the rifle back to the same position each time. You want the angle between the stock and your shoulder to be the same every shot.

Did the shots string in a left-to-right or right-to-left pattern? Or was it random?
 
I did a lot of dry firing and looked very good actually, that is why I am a bit sceptical about trigger pull being the problem. I have fired my rifle enough that flinching is not an issue, the recoil on my rifle is almost like a .22. I thing the issue is more on how I get behind the gun, the way I shoulder it. I think real good shooters have a ritual on how to get behind their rifle, maybe that is what I need to work on..
 
Alpheus that is a good question, unfortunately I did not make a note on which direction it was stringing. What are you thinking?
 
If you are not returning to the same position each time, that might cause the PoI to shift in one direction.

Imagine a line through your shoulders. That line forms an acute angle with the stock, I'd guess around 75 degrees. If the recoil pushes me back and I don't push the rifle forwards enough, that angle will decrease a little. In my case, if I don't reset to the same shoulder position and forward pressure, I'll throw a shot to the right.

With your setup, one way you could test this is to get into your normal shooting position, and then put a sticky-note on the side of your stock, just touching the sandbag in your front rest. Fire a shot and notice how far back you recoiled. Push forwards until the sticky-note touches the sandbag again. Fire a group or two like this and see if it strings horizontally.

One last thing, are you mag feeding or single shot?
 
Is the bedding job above suspicion? Horizontal stringing can be bedding related. Is the bedding under the chamber square and applying even pressure?

Parallax is set correctly, yes?

Are you sure it isn't the scope? Can you cross check by trying the scope on another rifle, and your rifle in another stock? That'd help narrow down the source of trouble. I'd double check the base and ring torque too.
 
Every thing Alpheus said plus check that you have a natural point of aim.

When your ready to fire close your eye for a few seconds and relax. Open your eye. If your crosshair moves more then an inch or so you have to adjust your shooting position.
 
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I shot these groups out of the original stock that the rifle came with a while back, horizontal stringing is also there so I think it is safe to say that the stock and the scope is a non factor? On my new stock the bedding is nice and square and appears to be applying an even pressure. The range I am shooting at has bench rests that I could never get in a comfortable shooting positions, I am not a short guy, but my feet has a hard time getting a solid purchase on the ground and therefore I find it quit a challenge to return into the same shooting position after each shot has been fired.

Alpheus I always single load especially now that my loads would not fit the magazines, but even before that I always single loaded my rifle. I like your sticky-note idea, but my front rest came with a positive forend stop that I have not used yet but maybe I will the next outing, any thoughts on the forend stops? Next range session will be more focusing on the natural point of aim and repeatability. I will have to start using the adjustability of my new stock butt assembly to customize a bit.

Oh, also the parallax was good, I checked there was no movement in the reticle.
 
I would try putting your COAL to loading manual spec ( usually 2.80 - 2.82" COAL) and see what you get. All the Rem700's i have, with their long throat, shoot best with those lengths. Yes it goes against conventional thinking, but for me and buddies SPS and 5R's, 2.81" is the poop. They ALL shot better at book length, regardless of lands.
Then practise, practise practise.
Do a round robin group at 2.81", 168r, go 0.2 gr steps, start at 44, stop at 45 gr varget (as you have been) and I would bet you will find nirvana around 44.2-44.4.
 
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Trigger control. Use the second pad on your trigger finger, not the tip of your finger. Natural point of aim is another big one. If you close your eyes for 5 seconds and open them and the crosshairs moved even the slightest, you are forcing the gun back to your aim point. Use the forward stop on your rest and a rear bag.
When you start shooting prone you will need to move that scope forward a couple inches. Try 46.0 gr of Varget with the 155 Amax bullets seated .020" off the lands.
 
chrismc great info thanks, I have shot those loads at loading manual specs, but I think here the issue is my technique behind the rifle. without correcting it, it would be hard to find nirvana. At what distance do you shoot your round robin groups? Also have you tried other grain bullets out of the sps like the 155gr and would it in your opinion do better than 168gr? Is Varget your go to powder or do you think changing to IMR 4895/4064 would do better? Got off topic here a bit but never the less good info.

JoKa I use a sand sock (well actually it is filled with bird feed) at the back, The picture I posted is the same set up when I shoot at the range. I was thinking on buying one of the bunny ear sand bags, but when I red info on horizontal stringing this was one of them that if the rear bag is not aligned with the front one, it would causes horizontal stringing.
 
The last four groups on target #3 were 155gr A MAX 46 gr with .020" off the lands. This load yielded the best group so far but on the other hand due to my lack of experience, the worst. I will re do these loads again and keep on trying. Using the second pad on the trigger finger will be a bit strange, actually as I am trying it now it definitely feels very strange. May I ask why do you prefer the second pad vs the first pad on the trigger finger? Also as I am doing dry firing prone, cross hair doesn't move at all and finding a natural point of aim is easy to achieve. Wish I could shoot prone at my range, guess I have to convince the owner to open up a few prone lanes for those who are thinking on going on to F class shooting.
 
attila_koko said:
JoKa I use a sand sock (well actually it is filled with bird feed) at the back, The picture I posted is the same set up when I shoot at the range. I was thinking on buying one of the bunny ear sand bags, but when I red info on horizontal stringing this was one of them that if the rear bag is not aligned with the front one, it would causes horizontal stringing.
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Yeah, I find that sitting at a bench your body still has a tendency to sway left and right ever so slightly. (One of the reason why I prefer to lay prone)
 
I would look at your position to the stock, your cheek weld. Are they repeatable? Load some dummy rounds, mix them with live rounds and shoot with a particular focus on follow through. When you shoot a dummy you should be able to tell if you have a flinch that might be pulling you off your stock. The best grip and technique should leave you with a rifle thant doesnt really move.
 
After every shot, my line of sight moves to the left consistently, so therefore I am doing something wrong also consistently. My natural point of aim is definitely off, possibly my trigger control is off as well. This might be a dumb question, but how much weight are you putting on the cheek weld, meaning the hole neck muscles completely relaxed at this stage? Every time I shoot or just before I do, I put all my effort into sight alignment, breathing and trigger control and also to not flinch, but the later has never been a problem because the felt recoil is very small. If this problem keeps persisting than I will use a video camera, that will help me with self assessment.
 
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