Need advice on shotgun fit

Varmit

Varmit

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I bought a 20 ga silver pigeon I about a year ago. I have only shot it a lot this past couple of months. Althought I thought it fit me when I bought it, now it seems that I have to hold the stock real high on my cheek to sight the rib properly. After shooting some clays we determined that I was shooting high alot. The Beretta is a straight stocked gun but that is how they are supposed to be built from what I've read on the subject.

Is it possible that a fine shotgun like this is wrong for me? Although I've been hunting big game for 30 yrs I just started getting into the addicted sport of shotgunning. (I'm 5'9" 170 lbs)
 
Just because a suit is well made does not mean it will fit you. So it is with shotguns. In your case, try an adjustable butt pad (like the Morgan pad). You can lower the pad to (in effect) raise the comb.

Sharptail
 
ricochet's right. i shot a browning citori field gun for the first few years i shot serious trap.then i decided i had to have a "trap" gun. got a win.101 stock had a lot higher comb. until i finally adjusted to shooting it , i had an awful time. i think if you've shot a regular field gun for years you might better stay with it for clays.
 
Varmit said:
I

Is it possible that a fine shotgun like this is wrong for me?
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YES!!

Before I did any major stock alteration, I would pattern the gun to check p.o.i. when you naturally point and shoot. I had a 20 gauge. 686 silver pig. And you probably bought yours for the same reason I bought mine. It was a pretty little thing! I had a difficult time with rising trap targets although I had a tough time causing a miss in skeet. I knew where most of the targets would be and there was nothing natural there.:D It was a pleasure to carry but during the fall season I missed more birds than ever and worse I wounded more.:( To make it work to my satisfaction the alterations would have been major and would have detracted from its appearance and that is why I bought it in the first place. The only alternative was a custom stock to match the front and it would have cost mega $bucks$. I let the gun go to a better home and I have never regretted it.

My advice to you would be to determine exactly how much alteration is needed. If it involves ugly spacers and a raised comb or one of those ugly dropped pads that will detract from its classy looks I would sell it. It’s a nice gun and you should have no problem recovering most of your money. After all I would not want to turn the pretty little thing into the UGLY THING!!

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun!!
 
I've got a 686 Silver Pigeon S in 20ga. The gun doesn't exactly fit. I find myself holding my head high on the stock, sorta looking down on the barrels. I still hit what I'm pointing at, but it took awhile to "learn" the gun.
 
thanks for all the information guys, now I just have to figure out what to do. I may trade it back to the dealer for something else, but this time I will make sure whatever I buy fits me right.
 
IMHO, finding a shotgun gun that "fits you" perfectly off the rack, is just about as difficult as finding a perfect fit in an "off the rack" suit. Just doesn't happen too often !

There are any number of shotguns that may initially feel "comfortable" to put to your shoulder/cheek in the gunshop, i.e., you may well be looking straight down the rib, however, after a few hundred shells and some P.O.I. patterning - you may well find it shoots "high & left" for example. An easy enough cure ... have your gunsmith cast it off to the right (if you're right-handed) by either bending or re-inletting the stock ... additional cast-off also generally works to provide a little drop. If still too high, reduce the height of the comb and/or increase the amount of pitch down. LOP may also have to be adjusted for your particular build and style of shooting.

Proper shotgun fit is essential to good shooting ... and there is no way any one manufacturer is going to "get it right" for the diversity of individual
physiques out there. The 6'-3" - 225 pound barrel-chested football player (with no neck) and 36" sleeves is going to require a substantially different fit than the long-necked skinny guy that's 5'-7" and 140 pounds soaking wet, let alone his 5'3" - 105 pound left-handed lady friend ! And "lucking-into" that shotgun you really like AND that fits you to a "T" is highly-unlikely.

Spend some time with a couple of good-shooters and the patterning board to find out where you're really shooting ... and then off to a good gunfitter/gunsmith ( with your pattern sheets) to make the changes neccessary to get the shotgun "shooting where you're looking."

A whole lot more effective and economical than switching guns randomly looking for the holy grail.
 
beretta boy said:
IMHO, finding a shotgun gun that "fits you" perfectly off the rack, is just about as difficult as finding a perfect fit in an "off the rack" suit. Just doesn't happen too often !

There are any number of shotguns that may initially feel "comfortable" to put to your shoulder/cheek in the gunshop, i.e., you may well be looking straight down the rib, however, after a few hundred shells and some P.O.I. patterning - you may well find it shoots "high & left" for example. An easy enough cure ... have your gunsmith cast it off to the right (if you're right-handed) by either bending or re-inletting the stock ... additional cast-off also generally works to provide a little drop. If still too high, reduce the height of the comb and/or increase the amount of pitch down. LOP may also have to be adjusted for your particular build and style of shooting.

Proper shotgun fit is essential to good shooting ... and there is no way any one manufacturer is going to "get it right" for the diversity of individual
physiques out there. The 6'-3" - 225 pound barrel-chested football player (with no neck) and 36" sleeves is going to require a substantially different fit than the long-necked skinny guy that's 5'-7" and 140 pounds soaking wet, let alone his 5'3" - 105 pound left-handed lady friend ! And "lucking-into" that shotgun you really like AND that fits you to a "T" is highly-unlikely.

Spend some time with a couple of good-shooters and the patterning board to find out where you're really shooting ... and then off to a good gunfitter/gunsmith ( with your pattern sheets) to make the changes neccessary to get the shotgun "shooting where you're looking."

A whole lot more effective and economical than switching guns randomly looking for the holy grail.
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thanks BB, yes I'm not throwing the towel in yet. I picked up 200 rounds of target loads today and am going to do some research before I give up on it.
 
beretta boy said:
A whole lot more effective and economical than switching guns randomly looking for the holy grail.
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effective and economical? That does not sound like as much fun as the search:D but I bow to your sence of practical and i am sure that your way is the quickest way to becoming a better shooter!
 
Covey Ridge :

I certainly can't take any credit for it being "my way" ... it's just the way it is. And you are right .. it's not as much fun

... but in the long run, it will be a lot more effective and cost you a lot less ... which in turn lets you buy MORE ! :)

Let's see ... Trap gun, International Trap gun (quite different than your standard ATA guns) , Skeet gun(s)(for each gauge, of course ... and if not, at least a carrier/tube set to cover all 4 gauges), Sporting Clays gun, Waterfowl gun and an Upland gun for starters. Then there's the specilty stuff ... a Grouse & Woodcock gun, Quail gun, Pheasant gun, Goose gun, Five Stand gun, Trap gun(s0 specifically for Singles, Handicap & Doubles ...you know, the list grows......
 
beretta boy said:
Covey Ridge :

I certainly can't take any credit for it being "my way" ... it's just the way it is. And you are right .. it's not as much fun

... but in the long run, it will be a lot more effective and cost you a lot less ... which in turn lets you buy MORE ! :)

Let's see ... Trap gun, International Trap gun (quite different than your standard ATA guns) , Skeet gun(s)(for each gauge, of course ... and if not, at least a carrier/tube set to cover all 4 gauges), Sporting Clays gun, Waterfowl gun and an Upland gun for starters. Then there's the specilty stuff ... a Grouse & Woodcock gun, Quail gun, Pheasant gun, Goose gun, Five Stand gun, Trap gun(s0 specifically for Singles, Handicap & Doubles ...you know, the list grows......
Click to expand...

that's what I've been telling my wife! I should keep the silver pigeon since my son seems to shoot it quite well. I think I'll start a second gun cabinet in a more secluded location where she won't find it.
 
I have used the Churchill method on two shotguns and after some minor stock mods to remove a bit of wood I was set up perfectly for rising birds. Works great for pheasant and grouse. I have to scrunch down on the stock to see less rib for trap shooting. If you follow the instructions you will at least see where you are shooting. I was high and left and easily adjusted the stock to my build and style of shooting. PM me and I will send you the instructions.
 
Varmit said:
that's what I've been telling my wife! I should keep the silver pigeon since my son seems to shoot it quite well. I think I'll start a second gun cabinet in a more secluded location where she won't find it.
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Geez, doesn't she know guns are like children. You don't SELL the old ones when you get new ones!

Keep an eye on your kids - she's probably out trying to trade them in on new ones.
 
Varmit said:
It patterned good on paper, the distribution of shot was even and I tried several chokes. On moving targets I'm shooting high and as I said in the first post, I think the comb is too low for me.
Click to expand...
If the gun is shooting high then it is likely the comb is too high for you. The "rear sight" of a shotgun is your eye and to lower the pattern you have to lower your eye in relationship to the point of impact.

The Churchill patterning method is to stand 16 yards away from the patterning board and test the gun using a full choke. At that distance every inch of pattern movement equals 1/8" of stock alternation (e.g. if the gun is shooting 4" high then you have to lower the stock by 1/2")

The good news is that this is an easy fix if you want to keep the gun. Start reducing the wood in small increments (1/4" to start) until the pattern is where you want it to be and then have the stock refinished.
 
If you KNOW you are shooting HIGH on moving targets then the comb is too high ... or, you are not getting a proper "mount" on the gun with the zygomatic arch ( the bump of the cheek bone under your eye) being firmly placed on the comb - or in a position too far back on the comb.

Sometimes a little practice & and one-on-one coaching re: gun mounting can save a lot of uneccessary stock work and disappointment.

CB ... beat me to the punch while I was typing !
 
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