Need advice, regular or ramped, bull or regular barrel for 1911?
- Thread starter Icefire
- Start date
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
ramped = full case support for higher pressure loads...good thing if you load a bit hot. Bull = one less part to wear, loose or pay to fit. Also more weight forward on the gun to lessen the effect of muzzle flip.
thats the way i'd go...
thats the way i'd go...
That's highly debatable. From my personal experience with 1911, the more a gun deviates from JMB's original design, the less reliable it usually (though not always) is. In theory, ramped, bushingless barrels should be more reliable. Ditto for external extractors. However, when it comes to the 1911, regular conventions don't always apply.
What he said, .....exactly what he said.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
I often wonder why people try to turn the M1911 into a match pistol.
It was originally designed to kill people and in its original form and subsequent mod (M1911A1), it does that quite well.
It was originally designed to kill people and in its original form and subsequent mod (M1911A1), it does that quite well.
"ramped = full case support for higher pressure loads...good thing if you load a bit hot. Bull = one less part to wear, loose or pay to fit. Also more weight forward on the gun to lessen the effect of muzzle flip.
thats the way i'd go..."
Ditto
Nothing wrong with a well fitted bushing type barrel of course, it's what we use in bullseye guns, so no one can say they can't be made very accurate
I do feel that in .40, a ramped barrel is a very good idea. In .45, not really necessary..
Gunnar
www.armco-guns.com
thats the way i'd go..."
Ditto
Nothing wrong with a well fitted bushing type barrel of course, it's what we use in bullseye guns, so no one can say they can't be made very accurate
I do feel that in .40, a ramped barrel is a very good idea. In .45, not really necessary..
Gunnar
www.armco-guns.com
TOO MUCH INFORMATION ABOUT THE GOVT Barrel/Slide relationship ...
Coned barrels use a different recoil spring plug [ enters the slide from the REAR ], so the slide must be modified to take this style of plug. Regular barrels with bushings have a recoil plug that enters the slide from the front, and regular slides have a ridge at the back to prevent the plug from exiting to the rear, so this ridge must be reamed out.
IN THEORY,
as a bushing and barrel wear, the groups will open up in size in all directions.
And again,
in theory,
a coned barrel sits in a "V" block arrangement, so wear should not increase group size as much. Theoretically, as a coned barrel wears, the groups stay the same size, but point of impact may drop down a bit.
All of this is more theoretical than practical ...
in the real world,
When it comes to accuracy,
both barrel systems can be more accurate than any one would really need. I once built a Randall SS Govt up into an IPSC match pistol, and with the coned/ramped barrel, I could get 8 shot groups of 2 1/2" ...at 50 yds. That should be accurate enough, eh what??
This particular pistol, with the ramped/coned barrel, was also used with HOT .45 SUPER loads ... [ 1400 FPS with 180 Gr / 1100 FPS with 230 gr Hornady FP ]. This was without a compensator, and was quite a handful.
If you are going to a very short barrel [ aka Detonics Combat master 3.5" ] the coned barrels alllow more room for rearward RECOIL ... THE BUSHING ACTUALLY TAKES UP SOME SPACE IN THE RECOIL CYCLE. So, unless you cut back the bushing, or lose the front locking lug, the bushing will block the slide on the barrel, before the slide hits the frame.
With these very short slide guns, the ramped barrels may also provide a slight increase in feeding reliability. The very short slides whip around a lot faster, and the lock/unlock happens more abruptly, with the shorter barrel jerking up and down less smoothly than with the longer barrel/slide. Theoretically, the ramped barrels might help a bit here as the bullet does not have to leap that gap between barrel and frame ramp [ which might get a bit out of time in the shorter time frames that the quicker moving short slides can have ].
But,
properly tuned,
regular barrels can be 100 % reliable, so what more do you really need??
Personally, I like coned barrels on the Govt model type pistols [ PARTS LEFT OUT COST NOTHING AND RARELY BREAK ] and I've built several with this system.
Ramped barrels are bit more work to fit, but if shooting HOT loads [ like .45 SUPER or 9 MM Scarface or .38 STUPID ] they are the only answer.
hope this helps
LAZ 1
Coned barrels use a different recoil spring plug [ enters the slide from the REAR ], so the slide must be modified to take this style of plug. Regular barrels with bushings have a recoil plug that enters the slide from the front, and regular slides have a ridge at the back to prevent the plug from exiting to the rear, so this ridge must be reamed out.
IN THEORY,
as a bushing and barrel wear, the groups will open up in size in all directions.
And again,
in theory,
a coned barrel sits in a "V" block arrangement, so wear should not increase group size as much. Theoretically, as a coned barrel wears, the groups stay the same size, but point of impact may drop down a bit.
All of this is more theoretical than practical ...
in the real world,
When it comes to accuracy,
both barrel systems can be more accurate than any one would really need. I once built a Randall SS Govt up into an IPSC match pistol, and with the coned/ramped barrel, I could get 8 shot groups of 2 1/2" ...at 50 yds. That should be accurate enough, eh what??
This particular pistol, with the ramped/coned barrel, was also used with HOT .45 SUPER loads ... [ 1400 FPS with 180 Gr / 1100 FPS with 230 gr Hornady FP ]. This was without a compensator, and was quite a handful.
If you are going to a very short barrel [ aka Detonics Combat master 3.5" ] the coned barrels alllow more room for rearward RECOIL ... THE BUSHING ACTUALLY TAKES UP SOME SPACE IN THE RECOIL CYCLE. So, unless you cut back the bushing, or lose the front locking lug, the bushing will block the slide on the barrel, before the slide hits the frame.
With these very short slide guns, the ramped barrels may also provide a slight increase in feeding reliability. The very short slides whip around a lot faster, and the lock/unlock happens more abruptly, with the shorter barrel jerking up and down less smoothly than with the longer barrel/slide. Theoretically, the ramped barrels might help a bit here as the bullet does not have to leap that gap between barrel and frame ramp [ which might get a bit out of time in the shorter time frames that the quicker moving short slides can have ].
But,
properly tuned,
regular barrels can be 100 % reliable, so what more do you really need??
Personally, I like coned barrels on the Govt model type pistols [ PARTS LEFT OUT COST NOTHING AND RARELY BREAK ] and I've built several with this system.
Ramped barrels are bit more work to fit, but if shooting HOT loads [ like .45 SUPER or 9 MM Scarface or .38 STUPID ] they are the only answer.
hope this helps
LAZ 1
LAZ, thanks for that long text.
I'm making a .40s&w from a pistol that got was to be made a .45 but the slide the guy bought has a hair line crack on the breech. So I was thinking of changing it to .40s&w.
All barrel/slide I find in Canada need some fitting, like barrel to frame + barrel to slide + frame to slide. I guess the best thing would be to find a .45 slide cheap, rebuild the gun, sell it and buy a .40 already made.
I'm making a .40s&w from a pistol that got was to be made a .45 but the slide the guy bought has a hair line crack on the breech. So I was thinking of changing it to .40s&w.
All barrel/slide I find in Canada need some fitting, like barrel to frame + barrel to slide + frame to slide. I guess the best thing would be to find a .45 slide cheap, rebuild the gun, sell it and buy a .40 already made.
