Need an IPSC production gun - a little conflicted

TRaTSeRiF said:
I'm a bit confused.. Why would you wanna buy a gun you're never gonna shoot? :cool:
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Talk to anyone who has a substantial amount of rounds/training/matches with a shadow and you will learn they go through parts - more so than the typical (the exception being 1911/2011s:p).
Spend enough time shooting matches with a high round count gun (unless you enjoy lots of parts swapping as part of your maintenance schedule) and chances are higher you'll have a gun go down during a match.
Just the reality of life with them.
 
beltfed said:
Talk to anyone who has a substantial amount of rounds/training/matches with a shadow and you will learn they go through parts - more so than the typical (the exception being 1911/2011s:p).
Spend enough time shooting matches with a high round count gun (unless you enjoy lots of parts swapping as part of your maintenance schedule) and chances are higher you'll have a gun go down during a match.
Just the reality of life with them.
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I have been shooting one of mine every week since 2006 (PPC) and I have replaced I extractor and 1 slide stop. I have been shooting my other one, every IPSC match since 2008 again 1 extractor and 1 slide stop. Factory mags. Never had one go down in a match yet. (knock on wood I hope I didn't just jinks myself). I wouldn't say that was too high maintenance.
 
What parts do they go through exactly? I've gone through maybe 4 slidestops in my 4 previous guns with a combined total of around 220,000 rounds. Two extractors, one was from a case failure. 4 extractor pins and one firing pin spring (in the 80,000 round gun). One firing pin, because I bent it by accident. Not a gun problem.
Other than that I've replaced recoil Springs around every 10,000 rounds or so.
 
yeah yeah I know. we need sponsors to jump in for that one. I'm not fronting all 2k of ammo to burn through the gun in one day!
 
Slavex said:
What parts do they go through exactly? I've gone through maybe 4 slidestops in my 4 previous guns with a combined total of around 220,000 rounds. Two extractors, one was from a case failure. 4 extractor pins and one firing pin spring (in the 80,000 round gun). One firing pin, because I bent it by accident. Not a gun problem.
Other than that I've replaced recoil Springs around every 10,000 rounds or so.
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Consumables aside, I've personally had issues with mags and slide stops. In approx. 30000 thru mine with 3 slide stops, and 5 mags.
Slide stops are pretty typical. OEM mags are so-so. I think you only going through 4 in 220000 rounds is fairly exceptional, not the atypical.
In any event, I didn't bring it up to create an argument - the fact some shadows can burn through parts is fairly well documented - some might like to know this tidbit before diving into one.

D_ said:
Yes because comparing anything to the perfection of 1911/2011 is just runofthemill typical
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I've seen you come to a halt in the middle of a stage - what? Three times with a Shadow? (Albeit one was ammo...)
 
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slidestops should be considered a consumable part just like springs.
Yes the factory 10 rounders suck balls. But there are few people that will ever shoot their gun enough to warrant worrying about them.
 
Onagoth said:
Hoping you guys can help out....I've shot a G34 for a while now and love it, but looking to get something good for IPSC production. Also want to use it for 3 gun and possible IDPA production as well.

So far I've considered

CZ SP-01 shadow (honestly, with all the positive reviews I don't know how to don't have one already)
CZ SP-01 shadow line
Stock II
Stock III

The stocks don't make weight in IDPA, which is a drawback for me since I do shoot sanctioned matches from time to time.

Any advice? I've have different people recommend all three, am I missing any different guns?
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If you are looking for gun for all three then you likely will end up with a compromise. The gun will be excellent for one or two of the three you listed and will work for the third. Because the Tanfoglios you listed are to heavy for IDPA they don't fit your criteria. This leaves you with the SP-01 Shadow. The Tactical is essentially the same gun, built on a different frame without the goodies you want for playing the games.

You like the Glocks and do quite well with them. My opinion stick with your Glock 17 - change the springs out to get back to a 5#+ trigger, put a decent set of FO sights on the gun (Savigny sights are great) and play all three disciplines.

I am not sure why the Glock 17/M&P Pro have not taken off in IPSC Production but the two guns have in IDPA. The sports are different and IDPA does favour the lighter polymer guns with their 2.5 - 3lb triggers vs the DA first pull of the CZ style guns but there are other reasons as well.

It always is the archer not the arrow and I am sure the Glock 17 in the hands of somebody who can shoot can and would run with any of the guns you mentioned in your posts. Your G 34 is legal in IDPA SSP/ESP Divisions and your G 17 is legal in IPSC Production. Since Vogel won IPSC Production Division using a G 17 and finished an hour glass ahead of everyone else in SSP Division using a G 34 you already have half of the equation to be a World Champion :>).

Good luck with your decision.

Take Care

Bob
ps I just rediscovered my Tanfoglio "L" and will use it in Standard Division next year using the 40cal top end. I could be a threat......
 
Slavex said:
slidestops should be considered a consumable part just like springs.
Yes the factory 10 rounders suck balls. But there are few people that will ever shoot their gun enough to warrant worrying about them.
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Magazines are also a consumable item. They can last a long time, and be rebuilt with some new parts. Still, feed lips wear and crack. Baseplates take a pounding.

I budget for a few new each year.
 
beltfed said:
I've seen you come to a halt in the middle of a stage - what? Three times with a Shadow? (Albeit one was ammo...)
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I've single shot myself threw an entire mag to complete a stage with half a slide stop left in an SP01. They do break and parts routinely wear in SP01's no question.

If I've ever stopped with a 1911 style pistol it was to glare at the magnificent design in my hands...
 
Canuck44 said:
If you are looking for gun for all three then you likely will end up with a compromise. The gun will be excellent for one or two of the three you listed and will work for the third. Because the Tanfoglios you listed are to heavy for IDPA they don't fit your criteria. This leaves you with the SP-01 Shadow. The Tactical is essentially the same gun, built on a different frame without the goodies you want for playing the games.

You like the Glocks and do quite well with them. My opinion stick with your Glock 17 - change the springs out to get back to a 5#+ trigger, put a decent set of FO sights on the gun (Savigny sights are great) and play all three disciplines.

I am not sure why the Glock 17/M&P Pro have not taken off in IPSC Production but the two guns have in IDPA. The sports are different and IDPA does favour the lighter polymer guns with their 2.5 - 3lb triggers vs the DA first pull of the CZ style guns but there are other reasons as well.

It always is the archer not the arrow and I am sure the Glock 17 in the hands of somebody who can shoot can and would run with any of the guns you mentioned in your posts. Your G 34 is legal in IDPA SSP/ESP Divisions and your G 17 is legal in IPSC Production. Since Vogel won IPSC Production Division using a G 17 and finished an hour glass ahead of everyone else in SSP Division using a G 34 you already have half of the equation to be a World Champion :>).

Good luck with your decision.

Take Care

Bob
ps I just rediscovered my Tanfoglio "L" and will use it in Standard Division next year using the 40cal top end. I could be a threat......
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Bob,

IDPA rules changed recently, weight was upped to 43oz, Shadow will be below that, he can use Shadow now with no mods.
 
CeeZer said:
Bob,

IDPA rules changed recently, weight was upped to 43oz, Shadow will be below that, he can use Shadow now with no mods.
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I know that is why I didn't mention them, but he can't use the Tanfanglio Stocks, which I did mention, as they are to heavy. The Shadows are now good to go as is. We still won't see many of them in IDPA. There were four at the 2012 US Nationals.

Take Care

Bob
 
I'd like to see what productions guns would be more common in IPSC if there was no 5lb rule. I suspect glock would be much more common.

I've only shot a couple USPSA matches, but there were lots of glocks in production there.
 
Matt I am not familiar with the spring arrangement in the Glocks but wouldn't putting a heavier trigger spring on your G 17 bring it up over 5lbs. With your skill level the slightly heavier trigger pull shouldn't be a hindrance. You probably are aware some of the guys shooting USPSA are now building Open guns based on the M&P 4.25 CORE model. It is only a matter of time before we see an Optic Division in IDPA based upon slide mounted optics. Guys are using them now in IDPA on a "Not for Score basis".

Take Care

Bob
 
Yes...I restored my g17 to mostly stock to get back over 5lbs and I've used it in a couple matches.

I do have a preorder on a tanfo and I've been shooting my shadow a little as well.

At this point, I'm so accustomed to glock I'm finding it hard to get used to anything else
 
Thye Tanfoglio will serve you well in IPSC. My Model "L" is similar to your Stock except likely a better trigger and FLDC and... but I make do. Vogel Hanson and Co have no worries when I step up to the line but I eat pretty well anyway so it makes for a nice hobby and day with the guys.

Personally I doubt you give anything away with your G 17. Don't know about you but my M&P's can perform mo betta in others hands so it will be awhile before I set my sights on another "make me Master" gun. Ummmm well Christmas is coming and that Shadow line does have possibilities. :>)

Take Care and Good Luck

Bob
 
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