Need Help. CR Speed Holster question for HK USP Match

[Quigley]

We only have standard and open in Manitoba so Production doesn't really matter I guess.

I saw you post that once before...

What do you mean by that? Is it just that there is no one else shooting Prod in Manitoba?

I would still give the gun an official measure to see if it does fit in the box, but based on what you told me...I don't think it will...

hey, you could always slap on a Docter Site (slide mounted) and shoot Open

 

[Matchlock]

Only Production in Manitoba?

We only have standard and open in Manitoba so Production doesn't really matter I guess.

You should talk to Brad Kirkpatrick, the IPSC Manitoba Section Coordinator. I think you've been led astray. Of course there's a Production Division there.

 

[Riflman]

huh?? I just met Brad yesterday. We had a match at the Firing Line. It was standard and open only.

 

[Matchlock]

Production

huh?? I just met Brad yesterday. We had a match at the Firing Line. It was standard and open only.

That's likely because there wasn't enough interest in Production Division for that particular match. What I'm saying is, if it's IPSC, it has Production Division.

For example, the Manitoba Provincials will no doubt have a Production Division.

 

[maurice]

I can't believe you actually gave Riflman that advice. Especially after Quigley went to the trouble of getting the "official" word from NROI Canada on this pistol. It was deemed "Not Production Legal" by NROI Canada yet you go ahead and give him totally opposite advice anyway.

Before Riflman runs off and purchases a new barrel for that H&K "USP Match" pistol, and then spends a lot of money travelling to say a National Match somewhere, he needs to know this. If, at a match, it is found that the serial number of that pistol is in fact from a run of H&K "USP Match" pistols, then he will most certainly be bumped out of Production Division.

Since you're telling him this is all ok, are you willing to pay what he'll have spent on match fees and travel expenses because of the bad advice you gave him? I doubt it.

Riflman...... save your money and go with the "official" decision of NROI Canada.

Sorry Rifleman, Matchlock most likely is right and I am wrong, " IF "this pistol came from the factory with a serial number that clearly identifies it as a USP "match", you are S.O.O.L.! You will more than likely have to use it in Open division, unless it fits the box for Standard. If you are shooting for fun, you won't care about score.
IF, this pistol came as a regular USP, and had the match parts added, you would be able to swap out one factory Match length barrel and weight, and shoot it as a regular USP, in production.

Matchlock--I assume HK (as well as other mainstream firearms makers) has a master list of all HK's sold and there designation. They won't be sharing with anybody. Not only have I never heard of that happening (I am new ), so maybe I haven't had the opportunity to see or hear of this happening, but it would also violate privacy standards the manufacturer has with its distributor and dealers.

 

[maurice]

...feedback from NROI Canada...

If this gun started out as a USP, and the weight and barrel are just add ons...reverting back to a USP would be Production Legal...

If this thing is sold as is under the lable "USP Match" it is not on th eapproved list and not legal in Prod.

THIS, is exactly what Quigley stated. I don't feel I gave anyone bad advice.

What he can try and do is get his serial number, contact HK Germany and find out exactly what it is designated as when sent out from the factory.

 

[Matchlock]

Sorry Rifleman, Matchlock most likely is right and I am wrong.

Matchlock--I assume HK (as well as other mainstream firearms makers) has a master list of all HK's sold and there designation. They won't be sharing with anybody. Not only have I never heard of that happening (I am new ), so maybe I haven't had the opportunity to see or hear of this happening, but it would also violate privacy standards the manufacturer has with its distributor and dealers.

Hi Maurice. Actually, that's not the case. In this context there's no such thing as privacy standards when it comes to serial numbers on a firearm. If I want to check with a company to find out when a gun was manufactured for example, all I have to do is provide the serial number and they can tell me what I need to know. They can also match that serial number with any "run" of pistols they've ever made to determine the make, model and serial number of the item.

I hope this helps Maurice.

 

[maurice]

good to know. So like a car, I can find out the history (?)
Seems like a whole lot of work. What would lead an official at a level3 or National match to check a persons firearm serial number, and is this a regular occurence? I actually submitted the serial number of one of my USP's to HK Germany, and they took approx. 3 weeks to reply, and then only replied with more questions. They never did get back to me about this........?

Just for fun, I am going to submit my serial numbers to HK and see what happens, or what they can tell me about my firearms. I'll report back as soon as I hear from them and what there replies include.

They did reply about my inquiry regarding the Stainless model, and the addition of match trigger and sights (or as she replied," Sporting Trigger and Sporting sights"). This is an option from HK with any USP, (except Custom sport, Expert, elite and tactical, as they already have this sporting set)

 

[Matchlock]

good to know. So like a car, I can find out the history (?)
Seems like a whole lot of work. What would lead an official at a level3 or National match to check a persons firearm serial number, and is this a regular occurence? ..............

Hi Maurice, actually, no this likely wouldn't be a "regular occurrance" at any match because of the time involved. However, a match official might question the pistol based on it's trigger pull. Since the "USP Match" has a "match" trigger installed it may be quite different from the regular USP and this would certainly show up at a Level III on the chronograph stage when they tested the trigger.

My point was only to say that the serial number would be absolute proof that the pistol was in fact a "USP Match". As Riflman pointed out, he knows that it came from the factory as a "USP Match" and therfore simply changing the barrel and removing the weight would be, "less-than-honest", even if it doesn't say "USP Match" on the slide or frame.

 

[maurice]

Yep. Riflman, Matchlock is correct, if it came as a USP Match, it is designated that and The " USP Match" is not on the approved list for Production. You can not use a USP Match in production. You can use the Custom sport, or stainless, or any other variant sells of the USP, "except" for the USP "Match".

I know this started off as a holster question, but it did branch off into a production legality /rules question.


here is the discussion for which I base my advice on, look at post # 9, and Vince's reply;
http://ipsc.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=2737&hl=

 

[maurice]

I received clarification on this.

The USP match was never a production legal pistol.

It can never be used in production, regardless if you remove anything or make it identical to a production legal gun. You could remove the longer barrel, and the weight, and add a factory barrel, and it would still not be able to be used in production. Your pistol and my Custom sport could be indentical and only perhaps the serial number could tell them apart; too bad -as it will never be a production legal shooter

IF it had started out as a Custom Sport, or stainless USP, and you had added the stuff, you could change it back, as the Regular USP and Custom sport, (stainless model included) are on the approved list. Rules are Rules. Sorry for any confusion this may have cost, it was a learning experience.

 

[Riflman]

It does not say "Match" anywhere on the slider or frame - only on the weight, but I'm not sure why I would go through all that trouble instead of just getting another gun in .40 or .45. Would it not be about the same cost as buying another gun?

 

[Musky Hunter]

hm..then i would take the weight off and voila..!

BTW, i would get a new damn pistol!!

It does not say "Match" anywhere on the slider or frame - only on the weight, but I'm not sure why I would go through all that trouble instead of just getting another gun in .40 or .45. Would it not be about the same cost as buying another gun?

 

[maurice]

Not sure how much a barrel would be; $250? Versus a new gun ($1000) Sad to say, but you won't "legally" be able to use any part of this gun in Production division.
I would buy another one. Hope I didn't confuse you too much.

 

[Riflman]

hm..then i would take the weight off and voila..!

BTW, i would get a new damn pistol!!

I say again, we apparently only have standard and open in Manitoba. This is what I was told by an IPSC shooter here and those are the only two classes at the match at my club this last Sunday - The Firing Line in Winnipeg. I don't think it will work in standard either, unles I remove the weight and barrel. At any rate, a new gun would be in order.

So now it's which HK is the closest to my match but is legal??

 

[Quigley]

I say again, we apparently only have standard and open in Manitoba. This is what I was told by an IPSC shooter here and those are the only two classes at the match at my club this last Sunday - The Firing Line in Winnipeg. I don't think it will work in standard either, unles I remove the weight and barrel. At any rate, a new gun would be in order.

So now it's which HK is the closest to my match but is legal??

I'd get a UPS Custom Sport in .40 cal.

Download a bit for Prod...then add a Jet Funnel (Magwell) if you want to also use it in Standard. In Single Action...it's a very nice trigger. You could have fun in two divisions...

If you're going to just shoot Standard...I'd look at a SA only pistol...

At the low end of the price scale - a nicly done up Norinco from Armco
At the mid range - a Bul M5 from Marstar
At the high end - An STI Edge from Freedom ventures.

Cheers

 

[Riflman]

I was thinking an STI Trusite.

 

[Quigley]

I was thinking an STI Trusite.

Those look neat....kinda like a comp with no holes in the top...

 

[maurice]

update.

Hk Germany got back to me. Not sure if they gave me this information as I was the end user (I ordered via my dealer who ordered directly thru FN sports) I am surprised they got back to me this time! The serial numbers they have match the description that came with my pistols. one is a Standard USP, the other is the Custom Sport.
Is this normal, for Manufacturers to give out this information; or would they have an end user record? I emailed them with my full name and the firearms serial numbers. Should the information be that easy to get ( only a few weeks wait)

 

[Riflman]

I thought I had made a deal on an STI Edge, but like the 686 that a guy backed out of, so did this guy. So, I bought a CZ-75 IPSC Standard yesterday in .40 S&W. It was used but only has about 1000 rounds through, still has the adjustable rear sights they used to have and was a bit cheaper than new. Not the hot rod i wanted but I shot it, loved the trigger and feel of the gun, it seemed acurate enough and it was a local guy from my club so I can pretty much trust him when he tells me round count and that it has functioned flawlessly for him. Now I just have to find a holster and all the rest of the gear. I am using the money I saved on the gun to buy a Dillon XL650, and I'm going to keep my HK Match for now. It's fun to shoot, accurate as hell and more importanly maybe, my girlfriend likes it.