Need help deciding on a new rifle

[mareshow]

Here's what the Insite folks came back with after our discussion. Well over budget...may be a "buy once, cry a few times" deal.. ;-)... Any feedback appreciated!

• Impact 737 RH Std. BF
• MPA Matrix Chassis
• Gray Ops M-Lok Weight Kit Full Set
• Hawk Hill 1.250 straight 6.5cal, 1/7.5 Finish @26
• Chambering
• CERAKOTE BARREL
• Heathen 5 Port
• Bix'n Andy Tac Sport Pro 2 stage
• 10 rnd AICS 10/12rnd

Edit - I never gave Insite a specific budget - I'm referring to the $4K in my OP.
Edit 2 - Discussion between 6 Creed and 6.5 Creed came up...was leaning 6.5 but now not sure...

That will be one nice rifle that will serve you well! I'm biased towards MDT chassis but MPA certainly makes a nice chassis as well.

As to 6 Creed vs 6.5 Creed, for a comp setup I'd err towards a 6 Creed (what I run) but since you're more gonna be working up towards competing with it, I'd go with the 6.5 Creed for the increased barrel life. It's easy to have Insite spin you up a 6 Creed barrel once you've hammered out everything else on your list and have got the bug to compete a bunch.

I'd go 6.5 CM if I were you, just based on the reloading issue. I agree with Rugbydave that 6mm would be the better choice IF you reload and are competition based but Because you don't, 6.5 CM ammo is very common and usually always available. not to many places carry 6 CM and those that do only carry a couple options. 6.5 on the other hand can be bought even at Canadian tire. The good news with the impact action is you can get prefit barrels which if you want to change calibers down the road, makes it a breeze.

The only thing I would recommend looking at from Insite is foundation stocks. If you're a chassis guy then the MPA is definitely a very good choice.

 

[Maple57]

Bull####. My 7 year old son sent his first 2 rounds downrange out of my 30-06, 150 gr around 3000fps. After the first one I asked if he was done. He said no, wanted another one. 6.5CM is a pussycat, not much more than a 30-30. Add a brake and a heavy rifle and it’s pretty gentle.

So you are saying your boy is bigger and tougher than my daughter... Good for you bud. I'll bet he is.

 

[PGW Steve]

Although the PGW M15 is a nice action, I wouldn't exactly be rushing to buy an action that realistically won't have any support anymore (being that PGW has shut down).

We did not shut down, we scaled back operations and have been producing rifles as per regular. Look for some exciting news in the not too distant future ;-)

 

[Bubbafett33]

Update on the search: I really appreciate the wealth of advice offered on this thread...but now my OCD has kicked in and I've officially hit "Analysis Paralysis Level 100".

• A few of you have PM'd some very interesting EE options...resulting in copious Googling to figure out exactly what I'm looking at, what a fair offer may be, whether I could easily source aftermarket parts, new barrels, etc...
• The Insite Arms folks have been great...but I need to find a buyer for a gently used kidney... PM me if interested.
• Other Canadian companies have been mentioned, both for rifles and components--and they're all worth a look.
• And depending on the way the wind blows, I'm "for sure" getting a 6.5 Creedmoor. Or maybe a 6CM. Or a 6BR. Definitely something starting with 6. I think.

Anyhoo, if you need me I'll be simultaneously watching YouTube reviews while reading precision shooting forums and blogs while checking pricing on vendor sites...all while I wait for a quote on my kidney.

 

[adamg]

Update on the search: I really appreciate the wealth of advice offered on this thread...but now my OCD has kicked in and I've officially hit "Analysis Paralysis Level 100".

• A few of you have PM'd some very interesting EE options...resulting in copious Googling to figure out exactly what I'm looking at, what a fair offer may be, whether I could easily source aftermarket parts, new barrels, etc...
• The Insite Arms folks have been great...but I need to find a buyer for a gently used kidney... PM me if interested.
• Other Canadian companies have been mentioned, both for rifles and components--and they're all worth a look.
• And depending on the way the wind blows, I'm "for sure" getting a 6.5 Creedmoor. Or maybe a 6CM. Or a 6BR. Definitely something starting with 6. I think.

Anyhoo, if you need me I'll be simultaneously watching YouTube reviews while reading precision shooting forums and blogs while checking pricing on vendor sites...all while I wait for a quote on my kidney.

When I got into this back in 2020, I went the easy and low risk route and bought a Savage 110 Elite Precision. It is plenty of gun to get into PRS for your first year, and allows you to buy accessories (bipods, tripods, scope mounts, gun cases and bags, etc) that will remain useful when you upgrade it. Then in the winter I sold it and went with the Terminus Zeus action, Benchmark barrel, local gunsmith to do the barrel work (6 BRA), and another MDT ACC chassis. Note that given what time of year it is right now, if you order anything custom, the odds you get it in time for the shooting season strike me as quite unlikely. A lot of this equipment is 5 month lead time.

I also went with a 'budget' scope, a $1100 Athlon. Then upgraded to the $2000 Athlon when I upgraded the rifle.

 

[Bubbafett33]

When I got into this back in 2020, I went the easy and low risk route and bought a Savage 110 Elite Precision. It is plenty of gun to get into PRS for your first year, and allows you to buy accessories (bipods, tripods, scope mounts, gun cases and bags, etc) that will remain useful when you upgrade it. Then in the winter I sold it and went with the Terminus Zeus action, Benchmark barrel, local gunsmith to do the barrel work (6 BRA), and another MDT ACC chassis. Note that given what time of year it is right now, if you order anything custom, the odds you get it in time for the shooting season strike me as quite unlikely. A lot of this equipment is 5 month lead time.

I also went with a 'budget' scope, a $1100 Athlon. Then upgraded to the $2000 Athlon when I upgraded the rifle.

I hear you, but I did that years ago with .22 OPRS, and don't have any interest in going through it again. Buying mediocre product and getting frustrated because it doesn't perform as well as it should, or it feels cheap, or it's unreliable...then finding someone to buy it all sucks. This is more info than I planned for when I started down the "hey y'all, I think I'll buy this Cadex, whatcha think?" rabbithole, but I'd like to get as close as possible to "buy once, cry once".

As for timing, I have my eyes on enough ORPS, 3Gun and IPSC dates to keep me busy, so I'm not panicked about missing most of the 2022 PRS season. I was going to start with a healthy dose of range time and find some training before showing up to a match anyway.

Can I ask about your decision tree to select 6BRA for your new rifle? Why you chose it over other calibers?

 

[Skullboy]

We did not shut down, we scaled back operations and have been producing rifles as per regular. Look for some exciting news in the not too distant future ;-)

Well there you have it.......right from the source........

 

[rugbydave]

We did not shut down, we scaled back operations and have been producing rifles as per regular. Look for some exciting news in the not too distant future ;-)

Good to hear! Wasn't trying to peddle disinformation, was just my understanding that you guys had shut er down.

 

[adamg]

I hear you, but I did that years ago with .22 OPRS, and don't have any interest in going through it again. Buying mediocre product and getting frustrated because it doesn't perform as well as it should, or it feels cheap, or it's unreliable...then finding someone to buy it all sucks. This is more info than I planned for when I started down the "hey y'all, I think I'll buy this Cadex, whatcha think?" rabbithole, but I'd like to get as close as possible to "buy once, cry once".

As for timing, I have my eyes on enough ORPS, 3Gun and IPSC dates to keep me busy, so I'm not panicked about missing most of the 2022 PRS season. I was going to start with a healthy dose of range time and find some training before showing up to a match anyway.

Can I ask about your decision tree to select 6BRA for your new rifle? Why you chose it over other calibers?

Fair enough. I didn't suggest this earlier as you made it clear you wanted to buy once. But then it seemed like you got into the weeds and figured this was an easy, one year answer.

I read the cartridge articles on precsionrifleblog website. I liked the baby 6 powder efficiency of being able to burn 70% the powder and get 92% of the velocity. And I had a bunch of H4895 on hand, and it seemed like the one cartridge where guys were using that powder.

After a year of shooting it, I'll say that the groups are good, but nothing to set the internet on fire or set any records. And in the cartridge's defense, I don't have the most precise reloading system in place. But I have to say that the velocity standard deviation is amazing. Another nice outcome is that fire forming had the same group size and slightly worse SD, so I was doing it at matches without concern.

 

[adamg]

load development July2021			first barrel, terminus zeus, AG, 109 lrht, 1F lapua 6mmBR brass, cci450, h4895 29.8gr				
	32degC 300m 5shot groups						
BTO	mv	SD	mv+SD	mv-SD	group"	moa	
1.818	2839	11	2850	2828	1.92	0.56	* first shot flier discounted
1.815	2839	2.3	2841.3	2836.7	1.36	0.39	
1.812	2837	6	2843	2831	1.986	0.58	
1.808	2841	9	2850	2832	2.117	0.61	
1.805	2839	8	2847	2831	2.93	0.85	
1.802	2838	7	2845	2831	4.33	1.26	
1.799	2835	2.2	2837.2	2832.8	2.978	0.86

 

[Bubbafett33]

Update

A quick update on how things panned out. I ended up going with a new PGW M15 ACC in 6mm Creedmoor. It ticks all the boxes I had set for budget, quality and Canadian-made, plus it left room for a case of ammo in my budget!

Other options I looked into:

• The Insite build was tempting becasue of the top-shelf parts, but it floated at almost double the cost, with a much longer lead time (I may have to walk back my "buy once, cry once" philosophy for this sport vs my wallet!).
• I looked at a number of EE rifles or parts, but still don't trust myself enough to confidently select good value/price components in this space.
• Cadex quoted me 6 months for anything in a 6 Creedmoor.
• Looked into Bergara HMR Premier, Tikka options, etc, but the only one that held my interest is unavailable in Canada - the Bergara Premier Competition Rifle

BTW, I went with 6 Creed over 6.5 because I don't hunt (don't need the energy of a 6.5), I don't reload (6 Creed is widely available, while most other 6mm ammo is not), it has lower recoil, and it's much more popular for PRS than 6.5. The 6mm "lower barrel life" thing is a bridge I'll cross when I get there.

Huge thank you to everyone who shared advice on this thread--I've learned a ton!!!

Now to patiently await the UPS guy...

 

[Longstud]

I dont think youll regret anything about PGW. Built like tanks and very accurate. They also stand behind what they build. My Coyote is the most accurate 308 ive ever shot. I have shot hundreds literally, not all mine. As far as recoil goes I think the black eye thing is a stretch when talking about heavy PRS rifles and ones with brakes. I had a 338 Lapua and regularly had my buddies kids shoot it with foam ear plugs and muffs. Dry fired first and then let the lead fly and watched all the grins when they smashed pumpkins out to 400 yards. The usual comment was ( DAD CAN I DO IT AGAIN). I wouldnt want to try it with a 10 pound rifle or there would be black eyes or worse. The guys at Insite will build a very accurate rifle and both shoot PRS. Harley knows his sXXt about building great firearms. I wish you the best of luck and am confident youll really enjoy the new PGW. Cheers Chris

 

[Longstud]

I must have misunderstood the part where he said...

I tend to introduce newbies & kids to shooting a fair bit, so lower recoil = better

So ya... Try letting kids shoot a 6.5... The black eyes will peak their interest. Great idea.

I let my daughter shoot a 6x47 once... Only once. Didn't go over well.

To a grown man sure, 6 and 6.5s are no big deal, but if the rifle is used to introduce youngsters, I would forget about rounds that are suitable for top ten percenters in match competition and focus on friendly cartridges.

Even in PRS circles a 6.5 is considered heavy these days.

70 percent of the shooters in a PRS match would not score a point worse if they shot a 223 with 77 grainers. I'll bet half would shoot better.

As for the 6.5 having better ballistics... Please by all means... Crunch the numbers out to 800 yards. The difference is almost meaningless. Sure the 6.5 Creed has better numbers, but you are calibrated to whatever you use. The only reason to shoot a 6.5 over a 6 is for terminal energy and the OP dont hunt.

That brings us down to a 6mm or 223...

Or do we want to scratch that low recoil thing off the requirement list?

Well first of all recoil has a direct correlation between the weight of the firearm and the weight and speed of the projectile. The vast majority of PRS rifles are over 15 pounds. So a 6x47 shouldnt be producing much recoil unless fired out of a light weight firearm. So in short, with all ur knowledge, why would you let a young shooter experince that? I dont think comparing how tough two children are has anything to do with scaring someone with a gun that they were obviously not ready to fire!

 

[blakeyboy]

[*] I think I've convinced myself that a 6.5 Creedmoor would be the best calber for me

It's the most versatile cartridge available, likely rule the roost for the next 100 years but that includes Big Game hunting and 1K distance target shooting. Both of which well beyond your scope so why pay in recoil/barrel life/noise/muzzle blast when you don't have to?

However, your needs of 200-800m at the farm without hunting and doing new shooter introductions etc. I'd have to suggest looking at maybe burning 30 grains of powder instead of 43 grains of powder. You'd have a hard time wearing out a barrel on a 6.5 Grendel, similar barrel life to a .22 lr and it's new cousin the 6mm Grendel...I mean 6mm ARC might actually be the perfect match for your desires. It will become wildly popular as it's essentially the first factory available 6br/6ppc/6 dasher type cartridge that own the barrel life/low recoil/precision shooting sports.

As for a build, ruger American in an mdt chassis and a magpul ctr butt stock will shoot lights out with factory ammo and adjust to fit anyone and you get the AR 10 round mags etc. The ARC adds 150-175 yards effective range to the Grendel which most find boringly accurate to about 700m...so the ARC will likely let you play very accurately to around 900m.

Anyhow, those 2 would be my top picks for your needs and desires. Both will have plenty of resale and market support through the next 100 years also as they are almost as versatile and efficient as the 6.5/6 Creedmoor's. They are essentially just the 'short' versions.

Oh I see you made a call on the 6 Creed, good choice, a little overkill on powder burned, barrel life, and recoil. The ARC would have been perfect. Your top 4 choices being the 6.5/6 Creed's and Grendel/ARC imo.

 

[Bubbafett33]

Well first of all recoil has a direct correlation between the weight of the firearm and the weight and speed of the projectile. The vast majority of PRS rifles are over 15 pounds. So a 6x47 shouldnt be producing much recoil unless fired out of a light weight firearm. So in short, with all ur knowledge, why would you let a young shooter experince that? I dont think comparing how tough two children are has anything to do with scaring someone with a gun that they were obviously not ready to fire!

I should clarify - by "kids", I mean tweens and up. Also, you're spot on with regard to the weight. I have my new PGW M15 specced with the chassis weights, and it's around 18.5 lbs right now. I've only had it out at the range once, but between that weight and the muzzle brake, the recoil is barely noticeable.

First range trip saw 5 shot groups averaging 0.5 MOA at 100, 200 and 300 meters, with a mediocre shooter (me) and factory ammo on a gusty day, so I'm happy!