Need help from owners of Brno 21h.....

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freire

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Hello gentleman.
I have a problem, recently bought a brno 21h not being familiar with this rifle thought all was good, not so.
Can't find mounts high enough for bolt to clear scope, if any of you have this model with a scope please let me know what you have for mounts/rings.
It is becoming quite difficult for me to solve this problem, just came home from the CZ distributor in Rexdale On. and we tried all kinds of mounts and couldn't solve the problem.
Any info will be appreciated...thank you..
Victor.
 
Some 21 models came with a flattened bolt handle called a "butterknive". suppose if all else fails you could have bolt modified it it is one of the round knob type. Google brno 21h and there are pictures of both. I have a ZKK 600 with a butterknife bolt and it stil required high rings to clear the scope. Some scopes required more clearance than others for it seems Bushnell, Burris, Nikon and Vortex have large eyepiece bells while Leupold seems to have a small eyepiece bell.
 
I believe all 21Hs has butterknife bolts from the factory. Look in the ee - I believe Win22 has some factory mounts for it. I used factory Brno mounts with both 3-9x33 Leupold Compact and 4.5-14x40 Vari-X III.
 
Butter knife bolt handles can be cut for a low scope mount and welded and re shaped and blued and they look great IF the person doing it has the skills... not many do it well. I did at one time but I haven't done one for 25 years... it's a challenging job.

Don't grind on an original bolt handle thinking you can make it clear the scope. It just ends up looking terrible.
 
P & D in Edmonton did stock CZ mounts that would let the butterknife bolt clear a scope. Perhaps they still do. The scope will be high and you'll get a jaw bone weld rather than a cheek weld but the mounts worked fine. See their sponsor banner at the top of the page. Good folks who know their business a lot better than many dealers do.
 
I have an original 22F with butterknife bolt, another 21H with the butterknife bolt removed and a round knob bolt installed, and another 21H with factory round knob/low bolt.
I found the only scope I can fit on the 22H original/butterknife is the Leupold compact. I have a 6x ( discontinued) and a 2.5 compact for it and both are in original BRNO skeleton mounts with leupold rings. The leupold rings needed to be drilled and tapped to fit the bases. that is the best solution for you, but the mounts are not easy to find. I have a set of 2 piece extra high rings/bases that will fit your rifle, they aren't as elegant as the skeleton mount/ leupold, but they will work with most scopes, PM me.
P1040451.jpg

a picture of the original w/ skeleton mount and leupold rings
P1040447.jpg

amd with the 2.5x
IMGP1091.jpg
 
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Longwalker said:
I have an original 22F with butterknife bolt, another 21H with the butterknife bolt removed and a round knob bolt installed, and another 21H with factory round knob/low bolt.
I found the only scope I can fit on the 22H original/butterknife is the Leupold compact. I have a 6x ( discontinued) and a 2.5 compact for it and both are in original BRNO skeleton mounts with leupold rings. The leupold rings needed to be drilled and tapped to fit the bases. that is the best solution for you, but the mounts are not easy to find. I have a set of 2 piece extra high rings/bases that will fit your rifle, they aren't as elegant as the skeleton mount/ leupold, but they will work with most scopes, PM me.
P1040451.jpg

a picture of the original w/ skeleton mount and leupold rings
P1040447.jpg

amd with the 2.5x
IMGP1091.jpg
Click to expand...

Now you're just showing off...I hate you...!:p
 
On these rifles you must get used to a higher "chin weld", as in my experience the bolt handles are not 60 degree types and the scopes must use higher mounts and / or smaller objective scope sizes.

When these rifles were designed, scopes were basically tubes and there was plenty of room to work a bolt. If you have an original Meopta type scope of the mount made for these rifles, it was quite a tidy, small package.

I find with mine, I can still use a decent Leupold 4 or 6 power scope with BRNO/CZ medium mounts, but otherwise you need the BRNO high mounts to get a fit for the larger scopes. Many do not like the height of the scope at that point, as they want the low, low mount that they are use to with modern rifles. In any event, the "cheek weld" is generally too high for some - I find its just a matte rof getting used to that shooting style of a more heads up position.

If you BRNO has not been modified.... well I hate to see an original changed, but it is your rifle....
 
farshot said:
On these rifles you must get used to a higher "chin weld", as in my experience the bolt handles are not 60 degree types and the scopes must use higher mounts and / or smaller objective scope sizes.

When these rifles were designed, scopes were basically tubes and there was plenty of room to work a bolt. If you have an original Meopta type scope of the mount made for these rifles, it was quite a tidy, small package.

I find with mine, I can still use a decent Leupold 4 or 6 power scope with BRNO/CZ medium mounts, but otherwise you need the BRNO high mounts to get a fit for the larger scopes. Many do not like the height of the scope at that point, as they want the low, low mount that they are use to with modern rifles. In any event, the "cheek weld" is generally too high for some - I find its just a matte rof getting used to that shooting style of a more heads up position.

If you BRNO has not been modified.... well I hate to see an original changed, but it is your rifle....
Click to expand...

I have tried Brno/CZ high mounts. i have tried Millet high mounts, the scope in hand is a leupold 3-9x40 which have the smallest eye piece on the market that i know of.
And nothing works, the bolt keeps hitting the eye piece, and yes the rifle has not being modified YET, but i think that is about to be changed as i'm running out of options.
I even called the biggest gun related supplier in Europe, FRANKONIA and no cigar.
I could try to get super high custom made mounts but that would be to high for me,now that leaves me 2 options.
Drill and tap or bent the bolt which i prefer,i will drive to Epps next weekend and talk to one of the smiths and go from there.
Thanks everybody for your replies..Victor.
 
I purchased my early (1946-ish) round top Brno 21 from a guy in B.C. It was professionally "rebuilt": a standard Mauser 98 bolt handle was nicely welded (bent) in place, a low aftermarket safety added, and it was rebarreled/chambered/headspaced (7x57) by Dennis Sorenson. It also sports a vintage Nickel-Marburg 2.5x scope married to vintage Talley rings/bases. It sits pretty low for this type of rifle, and there's no issue with the bolt handle. In the end, I am glad this Brno was modified, by an experienced hand, because in the end, she's a working gun and not a show piece for me. If you intend to shoot and enjoy Brno 21's, and scoping becomes a problem, make the required changes... but it is your rifle. :)

For those that think it's too much of a hassle, consider this... the Brno 21 is arguably the finest factory sporter ever made! (It's worth the effort, once you handle and fire one).
 
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I had a 21H and found Australian made rings by a company called LYNX. They fit the factory dovetails perfect and were high enough for an unaltered bolt to operate. That is if you used a moderate size scope similar to Leupold M8 or a Weaver K3. Don't know if they are still made or not, they were fairly well made.
 
I measured one of my unaltered 21s. It has a 1.5-4.5 Scopechief VI with a 41 mm outside diameter eyepiece on it. It has Lynx conventional rings that fit the 19 mm dovetail and the 1 inch scope. The ring height from the base of the dovetail to the bottom of the scope tube is close to 15mm.

There is about 2-3mm clearance to the handle. It works great for me.

I have others that I cant look at readily, but I dont recall having problems scoping these. I know that rings and modern scopes work without mods. I urge you to try rather than drill and tap etc -
 
I cut off a spoon style bolt handle on my friends fox 222rem and welded on a regular handle. He really did'nt like the spoon.
It turned out great.
 
Started out using the CZ high mounts Stocker mentioned earlier. They cleared my Leupold nicely and are quite beefy.
DSCF0289.jpg


Thru searching for a more svelte design to match the lines of the rifle I have gone to a set of Lynx. I do not care much for their clamp design, it seems flawed but having said they took one heck of a mean tumble down the scree and never loosed or shifted.
Notice the scope damage due to the fall.
DSC01281.jpg


Please whatever you do don't grind that bolt. You might not get the cheek weld to the stock but in my experience with this 21H it will shoot sub MOA all day long just the way it is. I've shot more game with this rifle than any of the others I have had. Bighorns, Moose, and a few Elk and Deer have all been mighty impressed.

There is also a place in the Czech Republic that makes a two or one piece base like Longwalker posted but with matching rings. Trying like the dickens to recall the name of them. They have a distributor in the US who was happy to ship me some. Two piece were $90 USD iirc. Pricey but they look like they were made for the gun even after 60 years.

Ah shucks how'd these all get in here.........:rolleyes:
DSC01193.jpg

DSC03896.jpg

DSC03887.jpg
 
The Lynx in Noels great pics are the ones that I discussed above.

I also have them in a one piece and 2 piece design with "studs" that fit into their rings and can be tightened / loosened for windage. Kinda of finicky but once set, holds like welded on.

The 21, with its correct front forearm screw properly tightened (like the ZG and 600 and 550 and 400 line etc) all keep their poi with their wood stocks like no other. They were/ are one of the best made.

There are rings that fit with your scope.

I have some BRNO 602 and 21s with the pop up peep sights (on the 600s) welded up, screw holes tapped all over the place, all manner of wierd bolts welded on .... the clean ones are getting rarer. I cant even think about a 1946 round top being cut and welded....

But it is your rifle.
 
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