Need help identifying a rifle - possibly WW2?

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jbeck97

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I inherited this rifle from my grandfather, and I'd like to know exactly what it is.

Admittedly, I don't know much about older firearms, but it may be from ww2 because my grandfather fought in the war and kept his rifle instead of handing it back in, but I'm not sure if this is that same gun or not since he had amassed a collection of firearms that was stolen in the 80's and this was the only gun he had left after that so it may or may not be his rifle from the war, I'm not entirely sure. Regardless, it's got a lot of sentimental value to me so I'd like to restore it to as close to working condition as I can, but before I do that I need to know what I'm working with.

I'm just looking for some help identifying exactly what rifle I have here, because I've had no luck finding any answers so far.

Here are some pictures of it, just copy and paste the links in your browser because I can't post with attachments yet since I'm a brand new member:

Top view of rear sight/action:
https://imgur.com/M0HIH6V

Full side view:
https://imgur.com/wVIDBcv

Side view of action:
https://imgur.com/bvs9H8P

Barrel markings 1:
https://imgur.com/vGCbmBf

Barrel markings 2:
https://imgur.com/9epetus

Another Side view:
https://imgur.com/tLATni3

If you need to see any more parts of the gun just let me know and I can get a picture taken.

If anyone can help me figure out what this is, it'd be greatly appreciated!!
 
ERA on the receiver means it was made by Eddystone - not Remington or Winchester. That is a low serial number - Eddystone made 600,000 plus during 1916 and 1917 - none were made before or after. Britain and Canada stored their's after WWI - there was rebuild programs before and during WWII to get them fit for service again - if it was your grandfather's rifle in WWII he might have been in a Home Guard unit or something like that - I do not think these WWI rifles were issued to any WWII front line troops.

I assumed when you say that you want to "restore" it, you want to restore it to something like original military condition - that stock has been sawed off - would have originally extended forward to within a couple inches of the front sight, and also had two wood hand guards on top of the barrel, with barrel bands, etc. to hold it all together. To get that one back to working condition, likely just needs a through cleaning and oiling, and a "once over" by a gunsmith looking for headspace issues, cracks and bore condition. There are likely hundreds of thousands like that one, being fired at deer and moose every year, I believe, or at least there would have been in the 1950's and 1960's when they were very inexpensive to buy.

On a P14, there should be the serial number in four places - on the receiver front ring (like shown), on the barrel (I think I see it faintly), on the bolt handle and on that rear sight - flip that sight up - the serial number will be on the forward top edge. An original will have the four numbers, all the same. Since it was made by ERA, all the other parts on the rifle will have had an "E" stamped on them, except for pins and springs. Again, some parts could have been swapped out over the years as they were worn or damaged - sometimes an "R" or a "W" marked part might have been used, but many of the parts between E, R and W were not interchangeable - some were, but many were not.

It is very difficult to find replacement original wood stocks for a P14, especially if you understand there were 3 different makers, and you would want an "E" made one for that rifle. Numrich in USA does sell reproduction stocks and hand guards. Plan for about $C 100 to $C 150 in metal parts to go on the wood, depending what you can salvage off of that sawed off stock - some, but no where near enough, parts might still be on there.

Some of your pictures are showing extensive corrosion on the bluing. That rifle would benefit from being removed from the wood stock, dismantled to individual parts and soaked or swabbed in oil, then gentle going over with either 0000 (four aught- Super fine) steel wool or a soft steel bristle brush - gently to not wear into or wear off the stampings and markings. Hopefully the bore looks better than the outside - it likely needs similar soaking in oil and multiple cleanings with good bore cleaner and bronze bore brushes. FYI - contrary to "common" knowledge, recently made Hoppe's No. 9 (say for last 10 years or more) is NOT a "good bore cleaner". Neither is WD-40, although it might be useful to flush out some loose material.

About the best reference book I have found for this is "Pattern 1914 and U.S. Model of 1917 Rifles" by Charles R. Stratton. I got a copy from Amazon.ca in Feb. 2019. Will show you how various P14's are same or different from each other and compared to the similar M1917 rifle - what parts can be interchanged, which can not - lots of line drawings to show the parts and markings.
 
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OP - in your picture labelled "Barrel Markings 1:", that line of text on the barrel "BNP .303 2.222"" and other marking there, tell you that rifle once belonged to the British military, and was "sold out of service" - a British law required the rifles to go to the Birmingham Proof House for pressure testing before it could be sold to civilians - "Birmingham Nitro Proof" - and they used a 303 British cartridge with a case that was 2.222" long, so the Proof House was certifying that was what it would safely fire. So this rifle was not withheld by a soldier - it was in the military and sold from the military as surplus, and went through the proof testing as required in Britain.
 
Unlikely to be his rifle from ww2, as stated above P14 in .303. Due to the condition monetary value is minimal but depending on the bore she might be ready to shoot now. You might want to fire the first one away from your face though.
 
That makes a lot of sense, this confirms my suspicion it was a rifle he had purchased after the war sometime rather than being the rifle he had during the war. My mom had previously believed it was his rifle he was issued and that he kept but she had no evidence for it so now I can let her know for sure!

Thank you!
 
Thanks everyone for replying so quickly and helping me figure this out, I appreciate all of your answers!

Take care, and Happy Holidays! :)
 
I just about squirt coffee out of my nose every time I see this: "my grandfather fought in the war and kept his rifle instead of handing it back in."

Rifles were government property and had to be returned.
 
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So are you always this condescending when you talk to people? Lol ease up a little pal, not everyone is educated about how those things work, especially how they worked back in the 1940's. I clearly already found out about the Britain Nitro Proof markings and how that is direct evidence it wasn't my grandfathera service rifle, so you had nothing useful to contribute by commenting
Kindly go find something more useful to contribute your time and energy too, and don't be so condescending lol what might seem like common knowledge for you isn't for everyone, just so ya know ��#♂️
 
jbeck97 said:
So are you always this condescending when you talk to people? Lol ease up a little pal, not everyone is educated about how those things work, especially how they worked back in the 1940's. I clearly already found out about the Britain Nitro Proof markings and how that is direct evidence it wasn't my grandfathera service rifle, so you had nothing useful to contribute by commenting
Kindly go find something more useful to contribute your time and energy too, and don't be so condescending lol what might seem like common knowledge for you isn't for everyone, just so ya know ��#♂️
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Well said.

Welcome to CGN.
 
The business of Canadian soldiers keeping their stuff - in some books about the Second Boer War, by Dave C. George, he mentions that returning Canadian and Australian soldiers were allowed to keep their issued service Lee Metford and Lee Enfield rifles, as well as their "battle field pick-ups". That would have been 1902 or 1903 when the troops returned. Was never allowed after that, in Canada. My uncles were soldiers in Canadian Army in WWII - they spoke of the sound of stuff getting chucked overboard as they came into berth in Halifax harbour on troop ships returning from Europe - MP's boarded the ships to search for "contraband" - but, with my own eyes in the 1960's, I saw battlefield pickups from Europe, in Central Saskatchewan, so some things did come through - quite clearly illegally, though. My Father was in the RCAF in WWII - he says that when released, virtually everything that they had belonged to the Queen - and had to turn it in or pay for it - right down to accounting for socks and underwear. Canadian and British had thousands of clerks and were apparently very thorough at keeping track of who got issued what and eventually had to return it...
 
I have personally seen two German sniper rifles brought back, one my neighbor blew the Sniper out of a tree with the big gun in a tank. He was allowed one suvenier, he wanted the tank but settled for the rifle. Maybe being allowed only one item the rest were thrown out.
 
wkp774 said:
I have personally seen two German sniper rifles brought back, one my neighbor blew the Sniper out of a tree with the big gun in a tank. He was allowed one suvenier, he wanted the tank but settled for the rifle. Maybe being allowed only one item the rest were thrown out.
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Someone was telling you some tall tales to the extreme. Unless you personally witnessed that person physically bringing back a sniper rifle from WWII it didn’t happen. Canadian soldiers were not allowed to bring back weapons unlike the Americans. Canadians did however smuggle a ton of pistols back with them because they could hide them easily. This is why we have a ton of all matching Lugers and P38s in Canada. He could have acquired those rifles anytime between now and 1945, they were sold as surplus for many years then over and over again on the used market.

Rugdoc said:
I just about squirt coffee out of my nose every time I see this: "my grandfather fought in the war and kept his rifle instead of handing it back in."

Rifles were government property and had to be returned.
Click to expand...

There were rifles that were retained by soldiers post war but it depends on the war and country. For example some soldiers from the Boer War retained their arms. Officers in WWI and earlier potentially retained their pistols as they could be private purchase. The Swiss allowed soldiers to keep their arms at home and could keep them post service.

Most the cases are misinformation passed on, but there were legitimate cases of firearms retained by the soldier. We even have this today with the Canadian Rangers being allowed to keep their Lee Enfields for personal use.
 
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