Santoneski
Regular
- Location
- Hamilton, On
All i have are some pictures. Alot of Italians liked Mussolini. He gave my grandfathers parents an acre of land for every male child they had and my aunt in Italy still has that acre.
Need help to ID a rifle
- Thread starter Santoneski
- Start date
jacoblombardo
CGN Regular
- Location
- Trenton, ON
Hahah that was one of the first things I noticed as well, But then I said to myself, Atleast he has a cup of wine
hahaCool Pictures
When Il Duce mounted his March on Rome in 1922, it was the beginning of a new era in history; it was the RE-FOUNDING OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE.
Well, that was the propaganda line, but the Blackshirts meant business.
If you care to check any Italian weapon built during the Fascist era, you will discover that it has TWO dates on it: the date in the Christian year..... and the date since the Re-founding of the Roman Empire. And they did it to reworks, too. That`why my little 1870/87/915 Vetterli-Vitali Short rifle has an 1892 build date, along with a rework crest proclaiming the work done in 1938...... which is Year XVI of the New Roman Empire. My 1942 Carcano Cavalry Carbine is dated "1942-XX".
And they did it to money, too: coins and banknotes both. And to just about anything big enough to handle both dates.
Well, that was the propaganda line, but the Blackshirts meant business.
If you care to check any Italian weapon built during the Fascist era, you will discover that it has TWO dates on it: the date in the Christian year..... and the date since the Re-founding of the Roman Empire. And they did it to reworks, too. That`why my little 1870/87/915 Vetterli-Vitali Short rifle has an 1892 build date, along with a rework crest proclaiming the work done in 1938...... which is Year XVI of the New Roman Empire. My 1942 Carcano Cavalry Carbine is dated "1942-XX".
And they did it to money, too: coins and banknotes both. And to just about anything big enough to handle both dates.
For those not familiar with the Moschetto carbine or have not had the chance to hold one in person, here is a shot of the carbine compared with the rest of my Italian rifles in order to give you some perspective as to her size.
I also found a real lack of close up photos of the carbine online so I took some close up photos of my carbine to give you guys some detail. I hope you enjoy the photos.
I also found a real lack of close up photos of the carbine online so I took some close up photos of my carbine to give you guys some detail. I hope you enjoy the photos.
Santoneski
Regular
- Location
- Hamilton, On
Awesome collection! so have we established that the Moschetto carbine is the gun in the picture? how well do they shoot?
Great pictures! The dude holding the bottle is huge compared to the other guys. Look at his boots!
I have a little carbine in 7.35. It is a nasty little booger to shoot. The ones in 7.92x57 must have been a bit loud too.
Keep the pics coming.
I have a little carbine in 7.35. It is a nasty little booger to shoot. The ones in 7.92x57 must have been a bit loud too.
Keep the pics coming.
I am saving up for a reloading press and then I will be taking these ladies out to the range to find out. I am especially interested in comparing the accuracy of the M1891 rifle, with the progressive rifling, to that of the later constant twist rifles to see the performance.
The Vetterli-Vitali in 6.5 carcano will be an exciting rifle to shoot as she is dated 1874. I will, however, have to be careful with reloading so she will be the last one to be shot once I get comfortable with the 6.5 carcano ammo.
The Vetterli-Vitali in 6.5 carcano will be an exciting rifle to shoot as she is dated 1874. I will, however, have to be careful with reloading so she will be the last one to be shot once I get comfortable with the 6.5 carcano ammo.
Thanks for the photos, Nabs: you have all the major ones there.
I have 2 of the Carbine, no bayonets. Wish I could find those. Most of the Carbines that came to Canada in the 60s had their bayonets removed and the mounts shaved so that a bayonet would no longer mount. Made for a nice little shortie, although not original. I notice that yours has both dates: 1936 - XIV. Very nice. "Roman war surplus", I guess you could call it!
Mussolini's biggest problem was that he got all balled up with Adolf; without that, likely Italy would not have been crushed anywhere like as thoroughly as it was.
But Benny did try, quite honestly. I knew a fellow whose mother wrote a letter to Mussolini, complaining about the local corrupt Fascist Party boss. It took exactly FOUR DAYS to get the corrupt guy GONE and the problems rectified. Sometimes I think we could use a good dose of Benny the Moose right HERE.
Speaking of things Mussolini-ish, for many years the absolutely hottest member of the Italian Parliament was Benny's grand-daughter, Alessandra. For sheer looks, she was one of the few who should have been mass-produced. And SMART, too....... but just a TEENSY bit Right. Still, a great excuse to shout "Evviva Mussolini!".... and mean it!
I have 2 of the Carbine, no bayonets. Wish I could find those. Most of the Carbines that came to Canada in the 60s had their bayonets removed and the mounts shaved so that a bayonet would no longer mount. Made for a nice little shortie, although not original. I notice that yours has both dates: 1936 - XIV. Very nice. "Roman war surplus", I guess you could call it!
Mussolini's biggest problem was that he got all balled up with Adolf; without that, likely Italy would not have been crushed anywhere like as thoroughly as it was.
But Benny did try, quite honestly. I knew a fellow whose mother wrote a letter to Mussolini, complaining about the local corrupt Fascist Party boss. It took exactly FOUR DAYS to get the corrupt guy GONE and the problems rectified. Sometimes I think we could use a good dose of Benny the Moose right HERE.
Speaking of things Mussolini-ish, for many years the absolutely hottest member of the Italian Parliament was Benny's grand-daughter, Alessandra. For sheer looks, she was one of the few who should have been mass-produced. And SMART, too....... but just a TEENSY bit Right. Still, a great excuse to shout "Evviva Mussolini!".... and mean it!
The formal "poster" photograph, first one in Post 18, is specific to the 9th Regiment of Artillery. That is their regimental badge at the bottom, with the motto.
I would think that that would be Grandfather's Regiment.
The Italian Government maintains several very good war museums with huge collections of documents. I would suggest looking there, possibly writing some letters. At least you know his name and you have that photo. Likely they will have a lot of information, possibly even a complete service record, which will contain details of which medals he was awarded.
How's your Italian?
I would think that that would be Grandfather's Regiment.
The Italian Government maintains several very good war museums with huge collections of documents. I would suggest looking there, possibly writing some letters. At least you know his name and you have that photo. Likely they will have a lot of information, possibly even a complete service record, which will contain details of which medals he was awarded.
How's your Italian?
I can never forgive Mussolini for tearing down so much of historic Rome. He tore down the house and church Michelangelo lived in when he painted the Sistine Chapel to make a grand processional toward St. Peter's. It's disgusting to me. The entire fascist mindset (including Hitler and Franco) was far too concerned with power. They were blind to beauty. They only saw beauty in power. I cannot look at anything they did as anything more than a terrible embarrassment for their descendents.
This is a picture of my grandfather during the second world war. He was drafted at 18 into the Italian army and was part of an artillery unit. I was wondering what rifle he was using at the time. He's the second guy on the left. I'm assuming its a Carcano M91/38 Cavalry Carbine. if thats what it is where could i possibly find one?
thanks
Only One non smoker in the bunch.
Grizz
Santoneski
Regular
- Location
- Hamilton, On
She looks good there but i think she had some really bad plastic surgery.Oh my....
really lads...
really....
Santoneski
Regular
- Location
- Hamilton, On
Yea i should look into some of his old records. My Italian isnt the greatest i understand more than i can speak and i zero written skills
She is a beautiful little carbine, very short and handy, with a super smooth bolt and action. Being 1936, I really wonder if she made it to the Ethiopian campaign.
The M1891 long rifle and the Vetterli-Vitali have both been around the block, I can't wait to try them at the range.
My 1942-XX Carbine was one of the very first guns I got when I was getting into this, just over 50 years ago: I bought my first Carcano (cost $12 at Ed Page's Hardware Store in Hargrave) several months before LHO got his. Nice little carry rifle, short, light, good pointer, little short in the butt. Got some of that Western ammo from Albion, tried it out and it was the hardest-kicking, most utterly evil, fireball-spitting, ear-splitting little MONSTER I had ever been around. It went behind the door and stayed there for many years. Handloading efforts all were in vain, all of the recommended powders producing fireballs and monstrous noise.
Then I was given (devolution of a friend's estate) my copy of the TEXT BOOK OF SMALL ARMS - 1909..... and it woke me up. It has all of the ORIGINAL specs for the ammunition used by all the Powers, from actual tests and analysis by the Royal Laboratory. And it shows the Caracno ammunition as loaded with 30.4 grains of a type of hot-rolled BALISTITE: pure NC powder produced as sheets, nitroglycerine rolled into the outside of the sheets under pressure, then chopped into flakes. It was a very energetic and quite FAST powder..... and it worked just fine. I looked through all my loading manuals and NONE of them gave anything like the right performance with 30 grains of powder..... but there was indeed a way. I started experimenting with 4198.... and the hard-kicking earsplitting fireball-spitting monster disappeared and I was left with a short, light, handy, relatively accurate little Carbine.
The Americans had been trying to get the right performance using entirely the WRONG powders. Assuming the Carcano to be junk (it is not), they were trying to hold pressures as low as possible, but the Carcano needs its bullets bumped (varying bore diameters), which demands a fast slap. 4831, Norma 205, 4350, 760....... even 4895.... all are too slow, especially for the 17-inch barreled Carbines. Originally I cooked up 4198 loads for the Carbine, to try to tame it..... but the same load works fine in the Model 1941 even though the barrel is 10 inches longer and the Fucile 91 (14 inches longer than the Carbine) appears to like it as well.
Likely I will blow myself up, but it hasn't happened......... yet.
BTW, all Carcanos prior to the Model 1941 had the gain-twist rifling. Model of 1941 was the first modern Italian rifle to us constant-twist rifling.
Carcanos are ALWAYS interesting.
Then I was given (devolution of a friend's estate) my copy of the TEXT BOOK OF SMALL ARMS - 1909..... and it woke me up. It has all of the ORIGINAL specs for the ammunition used by all the Powers, from actual tests and analysis by the Royal Laboratory. And it shows the Caracno ammunition as loaded with 30.4 grains of a type of hot-rolled BALISTITE: pure NC powder produced as sheets, nitroglycerine rolled into the outside of the sheets under pressure, then chopped into flakes. It was a very energetic and quite FAST powder..... and it worked just fine. I looked through all my loading manuals and NONE of them gave anything like the right performance with 30 grains of powder..... but there was indeed a way. I started experimenting with 4198.... and the hard-kicking earsplitting fireball-spitting monster disappeared and I was left with a short, light, handy, relatively accurate little Carbine.
The Americans had been trying to get the right performance using entirely the WRONG powders. Assuming the Carcano to be junk (it is not), they were trying to hold pressures as low as possible, but the Carcano needs its bullets bumped (varying bore diameters), which demands a fast slap. 4831, Norma 205, 4350, 760....... even 4895.... all are too slow, especially for the 17-inch barreled Carbines. Originally I cooked up 4198 loads for the Carbine, to try to tame it..... but the same load works fine in the Model 1941 even though the barrel is 10 inches longer and the Fucile 91 (14 inches longer than the Carbine) appears to like it as well.
Likely I will blow myself up, but it hasn't happened......... yet.
BTW, all Carcanos prior to the Model 1941 had the gain-twist rifling. Model of 1941 was the first modern Italian rifle to us constant-twist rifling.
Carcanos are ALWAYS interesting.
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