Need help to ID the calibre of a Belgian Cape Gun.

[Sasquatch807]

I need your help, I am currently repairing a Belgian United Arms Factories (Liége) Cape Gun. It is chambered in 12 ga. and supposedly in .38-55 according to the owner. But he is unsure about the latter.

Measurements of the rifled barrel are as follows:

- Bore diameter = .358"
- Groove diameter = .365"
- Chamber length, approximately 2.200" (+/- 56mm)
- Chamber rim diameter, .507"
- Chamber head diameter, .437"

Chamber dimensions seem to indicate a 38-55 but bore and groove diameter seem wrong for that calibre as it should be somewhere in the .375"-.379" range for groove diameter. I have included pics of the proof marks.

Any ideas as to the rifled barrel's calibre? How about powder proofing? I see the Belgian "definitive blackpowder proof for breech loading guns" and what I believe to be "rifled arms for smokeless proof". Does this imply that these barrels are safe for smokeless powders and modern ammunition?

Thanks for your input.

 

[mooncoon]

I would suggest taking a chamber cast and comparing the dimensions to shells found in Cartridges of the World. The bore dimension, even though it is stamped 9.1 mm is the same as the various 9.3 x X use. There are an abundance of 9.3 cartridges and that is why you need a chamber cast to determine the length of the shell for your gun. The base diameter for modern 30-30 family shells is .418 if my memory is correct although many loading manuals show a larger diameter. You can plug the barrel a short ways into the rifling, with a piece of cloth or paper towel and have a piece of cotton string tied to the plug then fill the chamber with parafin wax. The string is to keep the pieces together if you break the wax cast while removing it.

cheers mooncoon

 

[Sasquatch807]

I'm going to make a cast of the chamber tomorrow and see if I can come up with something I can compare with.

For now, all I can be certain of is that I'm dealing with one of the .365" cal 9.3mm rimmed straightcased cartridges designed for black powder. Although longer, the chamber dimensions are close to the 38-55.

 

[tokguy]

360 BP express( 9.3 x 57 R ). I traded one to a member here. 4 groove rifling with really deep and wide lands and grooves?
United Arms I'll bet too.
Uses reformed 30-40 Krag brass IIRC, C & H can supply dies.
I bought mine as an 38-55.
Could be the same gun, PM me and I'll see if I can assist you.

 

[Willy Tincup]

Those measurements suggest it may be a 9.3 x 57 R cartridge. My buddy has a Belgian cape gun in the same 12ga x 9.3 x 57R configuration.