Need id help with my .303

[kokanee king]

Okay, back to the surface rust removal. I will attempt to just clean it off as noted before.
The scope mount may go back on it, but if I can find what it looked like when it left the BSA factory then I will go with those sights instead. Research research research.......hehe
The barrel length is 24 1/2" long, but i didnt include the part the threads into the receiver.

 

[TimC]

Ok, If I have a catalogue with the right sights I'll put it up. John Knibb International has BSA's records and can give you the infor on thr rifle, when and to whom it was shipped and what original spec was ordered all for a small fee of course.
If I have a sight that fits I'll let you know, a friend of mine has a set of .303 express sights on a MH Carbine that are surplus to his needs as he will be rebarreling and resighting it, I'll ask!

 

[Claven2]

Whatever you do, NO BEAD BLASTING!!!

 

[cantom]

Whatever you do, NO BEAD BLASTING!!!

Okay, it was bad advice...listen to those who know.

 

[kokanee king]

No worries on the bead blasting. If this is in fact a "rare" piece of BSA goodness, then restoration is key. Bead blasting would destroy the value.

 

[Baribal]

Original hunting (or "sporting") rifles most of the time worth much more than their "sporterized" couterparts...

Here's some more infos for you. They describe the type of sight originally installed on it (most got original military type). Sometimes, they got provision for Parker-Hale receiver peep sights.

 

[kokanee king]

So ive cleaned all the surface rust off using G96 that I got at my local sporting good store. My town doesnt carry brass wool, so i got the superfine steel wool instead. I sprayed the G96 on, left it on for about 10 seconds and with only light pressure with the steel wool, the rust came off. I did strip off the fore end stock but dont have a screw driver long enough to get the butt stock off. I found a "ton" of numbers and letters all over the underside of the barrel and such. These are my findings......

Underside of the barrel, stamped all over.......... C658, FDF, FDSE, FD9V, LFD98, S, R, P.

underside of trigger plate removed......... 4, 50

underside of bolt.........14844

top of receiver where bolt slides (possible serial number?)........12### S
funny thing was, when i registered it I used the number on the barrel (3261)

mag..........33570P

BTW, she looks prettier with the surface rust off. Thanx for that help
I sent an email to Greg Young Brighton British Bit's & Bobs aka Alaskan Enfield Headquarters and he sent me to Ian Skennerton's website for a copy of this book ......
THE LEE-ENFIELD...
A Century of Lee-Metford & Lee-Enfield
Rifles & Carbines

Im going to check flea bay before I pay top dollar for this book.

 

[TimC]

I have the book and its forerunner. It wont tell you much about it but an email to John Knibb who owns BSA records will tell you what model it was shipped as, when and to whom!

 

[kokanee king]

How would i get a hold of him TimC? You say email, but know email addy is there.....

 

[TimC]

http://www.airgunspares.com/
e mail is enquiries@airgunspares.com

 

[kokanee king]

Thats to funny. I googled his name and thats the website that came up. I thought, nahhh couldnt be so never emailed. I am right now tho.

 

[Gary D]

Damn I just deleted my post before submitting it AAAAAARGH

I'll try again.

KK, for comparison here are some pics of the Lee Speed STYLE (I say style because I cannot find any commercial markings on this rifle)1897 Sparkbrook LE mkI. Also for interest I put it up against a sporterized 1918 BSAco. No1.mkIII* (SMLE). The top rifle is the LE and the bottom is the SMLE.

Wrist markings on the mkI

Basic Comparison shot

Cocking piece: you will notice the mkI has the safety on the cocking piece, where as the SMLE does not. Also this is an early style SMLE cocking piece. Most you find have the flat WWII era cocking piece.

receiver/bolt: You will notice first off the charger bridge on the mkIII*, also the dust cover on the mkI which when the action is closed the receiver is fully enclosed. This I believe is what SGT. was referring to when he said carbine bolt. as yours still is of the mkI style, but lacks the dust cover (please anyone correct me if I'm wrong).

Here is a top view (sorry for the bad pic.), also notice here you can see the difference between the knox form of the MLE and the SMLE where the barrel meets the reciever.

Left side of receiver: notice also you can see the difference between the rear sights, and the safety being now located on the receiver of the SMLE.

and the obvious other difference is the length. The SMLE barrel un-cut is 24.5 inches, while the cut barrel on this mkI is 28.5 inches.

 

[K98ACTION]

Tricky 303 SPORTERS

Pic of my BSA made sporting rifle, with the Lee Speed patten marked. I will get some close up pics..

 

[Gary D]

you also said the scope was mounted to the receiver, in that case it is possible the dust cover was removed to accommodate this, as it would normally rotate to the left side of the receiver upon opening the action.

K98, nice rifle, looking forward to more pics.

 

[kokanee king]

WOW.........thanx GaryD and K98. Thats a huge help in my journey. So far it looks like im just needing the original dust cover as well as the original rear sight mounted back on. Hmm...GaryD, your from my rifles place of origin. Any worthy sites to look at for what im after?

 

[kokanee king]

GaryD....everything about your Lee Speed and mine are bang on the same save for a couple missing pieces on mine, but mine has no indication of saying LE on it. The mystery still resides

 

[Baribal]

The Lee-Speed is the patented denomination BSA used for the "commercial" or civilian Lee-Enfield (using the Lee-Enfield Mk I action (with dust cover)).
Not all of the sporters we find are Lee-Speed. BSA made it from 1892 to the 1930's. About 1910, the patent rights were gone, but WWI slowed a lot the production. After the War, other companies, like LSA made Lee-Speed type sporting rifles. The early BSA Rifles were marked "Lee-Speed Patent" while the later were not. Many (genuine) Lee-Speed had engraving on the metal parts, express folding sights, selected wood, fore end nose cap etc. They often had a pistol grip cap, no charger clip guide (belongs to SMLE), 5 shot magazine (otional 10 shots) barrels with Metford or Enfield rifing, usually from 19 to 24 1/2" etc, etc..
The older commercial versions don't bear the action name (like LE) but BSA&M Co. BSA Co. or even LSA Co.
Some Lee-Speed even saw service.
Whatever, older, "Commercial" Lee-Speed usually don't have military stamps, just inspector and/or proofmarks.
Many of these civilian rifles were later fitted with military surplus replacment barrels.

Then after the Second War, there was a new wave of sporterized L-E and Enfields mostly made by BSA (in the same stock pattern as the Lee-Speed, but with the military butt stock) and P-H (who made it look more modern).

 

[kokanee king]

Now im thinking i need to box this up and send it to somebody who could identify it better than me. If there are any pics I should take to help with the identity, let me know and i'll try to make it happen.
You guys are the best

 

[Baribal]

Post close-up pics of the wrist belt, the left side of the action and both side of the barrel shank. This should make it. And/or any markings that you find. Front sight is also a clue, but if the barrel was changed, it can be impossible to make for sure. Also, a view of the complete rifle is a good thing, too.
Your rifle IS a LEE-Speed, don't worry. From what I see on the picture, the engraving is typical....

 

[Gary D]

GaryD....everything about your Lee Speed and mine are bang on the same save for a couple missing pieces on mine, but mine has no indication of saying LE on it. The mystery still resides

The crown cartouche and LE I on mine are indicatives that my rifle is a modified service rifle that was produced for the British military, and was at some point converted to a sporting rifle based on the Lee Speed design. Where the markings on your receiver clearly indicate it is a true Lee Speed produced by the BSA co. as a civilian sporting rifle as a No. 3 Sporting Rifle (see Baribals post of the add on the second page of this thread).

Another thing I noticed is the magazine cutoff has been removed from yours. (Good news is this will be the easiest fix by far, as the SMLE cutoff and screw should be identical, and are available at many parts dealers). I too think your barrel has been replaced with a SMLE barrel, and as such finding/mounting a MLE sight is not going to be a likely or realistic goal. honestly I have no idea who has any MLE/MLM (Magazine Lee Enfield / Magazine Lee Metford) parts. This is just a guess, but as the add shows BSA offered both Enfield and Metford rifled barrels. The British military changed to the Enfield rifling as it did not ware out as quickly. If your barrel has indeed been replaced it may have started out with a Metford barrel that wore out and needed replacing.

As for further pictures I'd like to see a picture of the entire rifle, and also know what the barrel length is.

Here are some more pics I didn't get posted yesterday.

Barrel Comparisons (note the MLE barrel has been shortened where as the SMLE has not)

Knox form comparison again. This one might come out with the MLE on the bottom (photobucket is showing it rotated 180deg on my computer), so keep in mind the MLE has the checkering and is in better focus than the SMLE.

Front sight comparison

Now keep in mind that the top rifle is a modified military production MLE, and as such the parts used for civilian rifles may have differences. BSA had different sight options for the commercially produced guns.