Need info on this ancient rifle

Win 38-55

Win 38-55

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Hello Gents. This evening an older fellow about 83 years old stopped by to show me his grandfather's rifle. Now his father was born in 1872, so his grandfather was born a good deal before that. Whether he got it new or not I do not know, but the fellow told me it used to be a flintlock and was then converted to a percussion. I couldn't find any printing anywhere on the rifle. I don't know a thing about it, so I'm hoping someone here can enlighten me and I'll pass the info on to the old gent. Here are the photos .....

Right side of buttstock ...
AntiqueStockRight.jpg


Right side of buttstock with little hatch open ...
Hatch.jpg


Right side of lock. The hammer has been bent down a bit and is now jammed between the nipple and the spring that slaps the hammer down.
SideLock.jpg


Here is a photo of the lock from the top ....
TopLock.jpg


Photo of top of wrist showing little silver medallion ....
TopWrist.jpg


Wider view of lock area ...
AntiqueLockRight.jpg


Right side of forestock ...
AntiqueforestockRight.jpg


Right side of muzzle. It has been cut down ....
Antiquemuzzleright.jpg


Muzzle showing octagonal rifling ....
muzzle.jpg


Trigger area. He says the front thingy is the 'hair trigger' ....
SideLock.jpg


Left side of stock ...
LeftStock.jpg


Bottom edge of buttstock ....
BottomStock.jpg


Top edge of buttstock ...
TopStock.jpg


Underside of forearm ....
UnderForearm.jpg


Fancy rear sight ...
RearSight.jpg
 
Beautiful gun. If you remove the lock (I think there are 2 screws on the far side) the inletting of the lock plate will tell you if it was once a flintlock. As a flintlock, it would have had an internal tumbler and mainspring and you would see the recesses for them and which are unnecessary for the current lock.
If you go to the American Longrifle Forum, and post there (probably have to join to post) I am sure one or several people there can probably tell you who probably made the gun. The patch box is distinctive and the lock itself is very unique in my experience as well as the hammer profile with the ornate filing on it

cheers mooncoon
 
VERY interesting rifle!
The sideslapper lock doesn't match the quality of the rest of the rifle. From the style of the rifle, it could be early enough to have been flint - but look at the wood at the top of the lock - it is not cut to allow a flint #### to come to rest against the top of the lockplate. I suspect the barrel was shortened at some time. Look at the position of the top pipe, the way nosecap is set back.
 
The owner said that the barrel had been shortened.
In the photo showing the muzzle, one can see some faint saw marks, I think. The old gentlemen took the rifle back home with him, so I can't take the lock apart to see what is underneath, although even it was here, I'd be a little hesitant to touch that thing with a screwdriver.
 
Beautiful!!

She was a cherished and high quality arm in her day.

Ummmm.....I have a maple stock blank barrel/set that might be fitted to her if you wanted to have a swappable barrel to shoot the old girl.;)

Great find
 
americanlongrifles.com is the place to go to find out about the old gentleman's gun. I'm sure they will tell you that not only is they rifle very nice but quite valuable too.
Regards,
Powderman
 
Thank you for that information on the American Longrifle Association. I posted the information and photos there and they are pretty excited about it. see ht*******tp://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?board=3.0
 
What a beautiful old piece it must have been when new but the beauty and workmanship are still away above the norm. Mule ear lock and shortened barrel, but not likely ever flint as evidenced by the lack of the notch in the wood above the lock plate where the flint #### would come to rest atop the lock plate. Overall style suggests well into the so-called "Decadent" percussion period: 1830's or later with the many intricate and ornate brass and German silver inlays, as well as the slim profile and narrow buttplate. Hopefully the American Longrifle Association or Kentucky Rifle Association members can dope out the origin. There is a contributor to "Muzzle Blasts" magazine of the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Assoc. that might also be able to help. Overall style suggests eastern Pennsylvania or possibly even Maryland, rather than Bedford County, to me. Please re-post this item if a definitive I D is uncovered - this really is a treasure!
 
Bottom edge of buttstock ....
BottomStock.jpg


Looks like a "J" just to the left of the three nail heads.

Amazing piece and obviously carried for years and used hard from the wear around the inlays etc.

Suggest you and the owner do the family history research now while he is still alive, that will tell the story of the first owner and the rifle and perhaps its travels.

"If only they could speak" was never more true.
 
I found a signature and carefully drew it. I also re-did the photos to bring out more detail in the dark areas and posted all this in a new post at ht*****tp://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=12582.0
 
Just some follow-up info from my previous comment. On page #4 of the book "The Kentucky Rifle" by J.G.W. Dillin, that is a classic on longrifles, he shows pictures of 2 highly decorated mule ear rifles, one having a double-set trigger. His footnote reads " Mule-ear rifles were made during 1850 - 1860, were usually highly decorated and were expensive weapons". In a subsequent note he states "both of these rifles have a number of features typical to the Milton area of Northumberland Co., PA". That is in east - central PA.
Good luck with your search. Try to get as much history as possible from the owner while he is alive: I inherited a longrifle from my late uncle 30 years ago but he never told me much of it's history and some of the written info he left was incorrect so, regrettably, I too am in a search for the origin of a cherished old rifle.
 
Just as a follow up on your posting wrt to the signature. I have attached a photo of an inscribed gun and the first letter that you have sketched looks very much like the one in the photo.
001-17.jpg

Sig-Rotated.jpg

If this is a J, it matches with the one on the buttplate.
Maybe we are looking for a gunmaker with JM or JN.
 
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Notice that someone has scratched a "HF" or "HE" on the eustucheon plate? Initials of the grandfather of your friend?
 
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