Do any members here have load data for .44 special BP or Pyrodex or 777. I have an antique colt SAA with gen 2 smokeless cylinder, but the frame and barrel are BP only so Im looking for data to make some loads safe too shoot and easy on the gun.
need load data for .44 special BP or substitute
- Thread starter gutinater
- Start date
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
with real blackpowder fill the case and leave enough room to seat the bullet (you will want some compression on the powder)
normal load for the .44 S&W is around 20-25gr of 3f and a 200gr bullet
normal load for the .44 S&W is around 20-25gr of 3f and a 200gr bullet
so 777 FFg or 777 FFFg? And do I have to reduce the load somehow or will the same case volume as black powder be safe in my antique? I would rather use 777 than BP or pyrodex because its easier to clean and I dont have to use BP lubed bullets.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
BP is easy to clean hot water and a few patchs
Thanks for the help guys, pardon my reloading newbie questions. so if I use a 200 grn bullet with 25 grains of 777 2fg I get approx 900fps vs less than 800 fps with a 240 grain bullet and 20 grains of 777 2fg. Does this mean the 240 grain load will produce less pressure and be safer in my gun (and less recoil) due to the lower powder charge with the large bullet taking up more space in the casing?
No. With the same powder charge a heavier bullet will produce MORE pressure than a lighter bullet.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
both loads will do about the same pressure wise
id stay away from 777 as it pressure spikes big time id just use the real stuff or atleast some proydex if you dont feel like ordering BP
id stay away from 777 as it pressure spikes big time id just use the real stuff or atleast some proydex if you dont feel like ordering BP
Given two loads using the same powder charge, one load with a heavier bullet and one with a lighter bullet, and everything else being equal: The load with the heavier bullet will generate more pressure every time. It's a very basic concept in handloading and one that a reloader should thoroughly understand.
Look at any reloading manual and notice that the max powder charges for the same powder invariably get smaller as the bullets gets heavier.
It's not hard to clean BP if you clean after every time you shoot.
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I didn't beleive it was easier to clean myself at first, but it is. those beautiful antiques have been "gunked" time and time again over their lifetime.
Waters cheaper then solvent, and its all you need to get the gunk out.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
if you llok at the load he put up one uses 25gr and one uses 20gr the one with the lighter bullet uses 25 and the one with the heavier bullet uses 20 its sstadered practice even with smokeless that the powder charge be lighter with heavier bullet to meet the max pressure
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
then dont use 777 its the worst for corrosion id stick to simple bp easy to clean the gun was shot for years with BP cartridges no issue
You will have a harder time cleaning it with substitutes. Like antiqueguy says, your chances of rusting it will be higher.
I used to use substitutes in my revolvers as well, the cleanup is definately harder to do, the mess is the same as black but the fowling is much harder. The hardest to "trust" with BP was my shiloh sharps long range express, first time I tried I recleaned that gun about 3 times when I used black in it for fear of rusting it, nowadays its water straight down the barrel, followed by a wet water patch, a dry patch and an oiled patch and its done. Takes twice as long to clean it when I shoot smokeless with it. Same story with my gallagher carbine when I tried the substitutes, cleaning the breech area, nipples, chamber and flash hole on that thing was a miserable chore with pyrodex. You almost need the store bought solvent to even make a dent in the fowling and it is some nasty stuff and you really dont want that goo getting into hard to reach places.
Its really hard to bring yourself to wipe down a gun that cost a few grand with a wet cloth that you ran under the tap, but if you follow it up with a dry rag, and then an oily rag, you sir, have a clean gun. First time is very hard to do, I've been there and I'm telling you, you will have difficulty sleeping the first time you try it. Most of the fellas who complain of rusting try cleaning out "old faithfull" with eather the "black powder only solvent" or more likely, give the barrel a couple of swipes with a shirt tail patch soaked in Hoppes #9 and will oil it if they remember to.
Your fears are unfounded in damaging your gun, your brass casings are in more danger of damage, from neglected cleaning then the gun, as most people dont think of tossing their empties in some hot soapy water when the days done, and you will have to do that with the substitutes as well anyways and again they would be harder to clean if you choose not to use genuine black powder.
Between the 777 with the pressure spikes if you compress to much, the hard fowling of pyrodex and it is more difficult to ignite (not really an issue with catridge guns), your best bet is straight black powder. Im assuming your gun is eather an heirloom or one of those obsenely expensive antiques so i understand your reservations but that safest thing for your gun is regular black.
Of course its your iron, you do with it as you please, but you'l eventually come around.
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why fear BP cleaning?
I have used goex FFF and 777 in my ruger old army.
231, universal and trailboss in other SA revolvers.
Easiest to clean measured by time and spent patches:
Goex
Hardest
231
Difference being I must clean after using goex FFF and 777 in my ruger old army.
Cleaning is optional (for me) after using trailboss in my blued rugers and stainless freedom arms. That is no harm done with just a simple wipe down with an oily rag.
I have used goex FFF and 777 in my ruger old army.
231, universal and trailboss in other SA revolvers.
Easiest to clean measured by time and spent patches:
Goex
Hardest
231
Difference being I must clean after using goex FFF and 777 in my ruger old army.
Cleaning is optional (for me) after using trailboss in my blued rugers and stainless freedom arms. That is no harm done with just a simple wipe down with an oily rag.
I use trailboss and 240grn bullets in my SAA, the go 700fps, same as the winchester cowboy action ammo.
Just can't compress the powder when seating the bullet and it's safe. I think I put 5.6 grains in them, but I'd have to double check my book to be sure.
Just can't compress the powder when seating the bullet and it's safe. I think I put 5.6 grains in them, but I'd have to double check my book to be sure.
