Need Some Help With What Dies To Get

CTS

CTS

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Hello,

So I am brand new to reloading and will be buying a Forster reloading press. I was planning on just buying the press and dies together and then reading a book on reloading to figure everything out.

My problem I ran into is the amount of different dies, 2 set, 3 set, full length, neck dies, seater dies, etc. I will be reloading 7mm Rem mag and would like to know what i need to just get started, ignorant me thought there was only one type of die.

Also what is a good book to get?

Thanks!
 
Before you buy anything get yourself a reloading manual and have a good read with a much better understanding. This way you won't get confused with so many opinions.
 
The main reason i want to buy the press and the dies now is because the press has always been sold out and i found one finally that is in stock and has a good price. So i want to get one while they have it in stock and figure i might as well get some dies and save on shipping at the same time.
 
CTS

I agree with PitBull1973 about buying manuals and reading them, this means the front part of the manuals where the specifics of reloading are.

I have been reloading for over 46 years and I'm still using the first press I bought in 1973, a RCBS Rockchucker, meaning to start you do not need a $300.00 Forster Coax press.

To load the most concentric ammo with the least amount of neck runout you will need gauges. The three I recommend to start with are a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge, a simple neck thickness gauge and a runout gauge. If money is a problem just get a simple drop in case gauge and use Forster Full length dies and get the other gauges later.

More reloaded ammunition is resized with excessive neck runout for the simple reason the expander button is locked down off center. So being able to find what you are doing wrong during die setup or find bad or poorly made brass you need gauges.

The basic die set contains two dies, a sizing die and a seating die, a three die set might contain a separate crimp die, and a four die set may also contain a separate neck sizing die.

I highly recommend Forster full length resizing dies because of the design of the expander and spindle assembly produces the least amount of neck runout.

Forster Full Length Sizing Die Cutaway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgIfzsH8N6k

"All the information in the world is written in books and all you have to do is read."

The ABCs Of Reloading: The Definitive Guide for Novice to Expert (ABC's of Reloading) [Kindle Edition]
http://www.amazon.com/The-ABCs-Of-Reloading-Definitive-ebook/dp/B004GUSBP6
 
My personal preference for dies are redding s type bushing dies. They consistently give me less than 2 thou runout on loaded rounds.

Make sure whatever dies you buy are the same thread as your press. I believe 14-7/8" is the standard but double check when you order. You will also need shell holders to fit the case onto the ram of the press. You will need a good scale. The rcbs 5-0-5 is a good start. A powder flow, a powder trickler, a loading block, a funnel to fill the cases, and of course quality micrometers. I hate the digital ones, the batteries are always dead. You also will need to be able to trim your cases so you will need a case trimmer. I prefer the wilson case trimmers but I have used lyman case trimmers too and they do the job. Don't forget you have to seat the primers too. I like a hand primer like the lee auto prime. And a case neck chamfering tool. That is everything that comes to my mind as essential to getting started. In the future you may find you want a concentricity gauge, primer pocket uniformers, and flash hole deburring kit and out side neck trimmers.

Most reloading manuals give you a good introduction to reloading in them. Again my preference is for the Sierra loading manual. You can also get a lot of good information from Sierras reloading video called "Hi performance rifle reloading" or something close to that name. It is done by David Tubb who just might know a thing or two about reloading.

And ask all the questions you might come up with here. Extremely knowledgable people here very happy to help you.
 
CTS said:
The main reason i want to buy the press and the dies now is because the press has always been sold out and i found one finally that is in stock and has a good price. So i want to get one while they have it in stock and figure i might as well get some dies and save on shipping at the same time.
Click to expand...

CTS

The only press I know of that Forster makes is the Coax press, which in my opinion is the Cadillac of reloading presses, so you have good taste. (but once cry once) So go for it if that is what you want and you will not be disappointed.

Now study the exaggerated image below, and take a close look at the red and green dotted lines. If you follow the die makers instructions normally you will push the shoulder of the case back to the green dotted line, which will "OVER" resize the case. These directions insure a resized case will fit in any rifles chamber of that caliber. Minimum shoulder bump or shoulder setback will ensure the resized case will fit your chamber and not be over resized. Meaning resizing the case to be .001 to .002 shorter than your actual chamber headspace.


With your belted case you will need to forget the belt and let your cases headspace off the shoulder and not the belt to extend case life. This will prevent the case from stretching and having case head separations.

shouldersetback_zps59bf1b04.jpg


And also understand we live in a plus and minus manufacturing world and quality costs money. I have a set of Lee .223 dies that will push the shoulder back .009 shorter than a GO gauge making the shoulder location .012 shorter than the chambers actual headspace length.(all you need is for the case to be .001 to .002 shorter) On top of this these same Lee dies will reduce the base diameter of the case more than my RCBS small base dies do. And this is where having a set of vernier calipers comes in to measure your fired and resized cases and make sure you are not over working the brass. (think of bending a paper clip until it breaks and over stressing the metal)

I would buy the Forster two die set below and forget neck sizing or bushing dies until you have been loading longer and have some good gauges. (KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid)

Forster Bench Rest 2-Die Set 7mm Remington Magnum
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/764936/forster-bench-rest-2-die-set-7mm-remington-magnum?cm_vc=ProductFinding
 
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For all of those answering the OP questions I want to add something here, the OP is new to reloading and to start he does NOT need neck sizing or bushing dies...period. So lets not confuse the issue, the OP at this time is just starting out and needs more gauges and equipment and neck sizing and bushing dies are out of the equation.

For those of you who think I'm full of fecal debris then read below written by an expert who worked in the Sierra test labs and shoots for Team Lapua USA.

KTLapua-b_zps8d1abc2c.jpg
 
CTS said:
Hello,

So I am brand new to reloading and will be buying a Forster reloading press. I was planning on just buying the press and dies together and then reading a book on reloading to figure everything out.

My problem I ran into is the amount of different dies, 2 set, 3 set, full length, neck dies, seater dies, etc. I will be reloading 7mm Rem mag and would like to know what i need to just get started, ignorant me thought there was only one type of die.

Also what is a good book to get?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

This book is what I started out with:

image_the_abcs_of_reloading_rodney_james-tfb_zps78974484.jpg


I inherited a Bonanza Co-Ax press from a family friend who's husband passed away. The press sat in the box for over 25 years. I have the old receipt and it was purchased for $209 Cdn back on April 21/1984. It also came with a set of Bonanza 7mm small base dies (full length sizer and seater die) as well as a couple hundred maybe once fired Remington brass? I would just get the Forster full length sizer and standard seating die, you can always get those other dies down the road. If you are starting out with brand new never fired brass then maybe the standard neck sizing die if you are going to use the rounds in the same rifle, if not then the full length sizer.

079C035C-8985-4269-BB7E-8DB36B2EE476_zps9kxktih8.jpg
 
As a newb, consistency of habit in reloading is my immediate goal, not tailoring a cartridge to my gun, which is more secondary at this point.
Just getting to know how to use the tools and getting everything set up properly is probably more important than runout at this point.
 
I started out using the LEE 4 die set for a couple of calibres with my Forster and it served and still does serve me well..

After a period of time I added a couple of precision Forster / Redding dies and that pretty much takes care of my needs.
 
I loaded many rounds on a Lee Challenger when I started. It did the job well enough. I traded up to a Rockchucker years ago and think that's all I will ever need. I load pistol rounds on a Hornady Projector I found used at a great price. That was a learning experience however and until you are comfortable with what you are doing one at a time is the way to go. Hard to beat that RCBS Rockchucker starter kit for the money.
 
bigedp51 said:
For all of those answering the OP questions I want to add something here, the OP is new to reloading and to start he does NOT need neck sizing or bushing dies...period. So lets not confuse the issue, the OP at this time is just starting out and needs more gauges and equipment and neck sizing and bushing dies are out of the equation.

For those of you who think I'm full of fecal debris then read below written by an expert who worked in the Sierra test labs and shoots for Team Lapua USA.

KTLapua-b_zps8d1abc2c.jpg
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. I was refering to full length S bushing dies, but your right it is not neccessary for getting into reloading. I was just thinking "Pay once cry once".
 
Markus said:
I couldn't agree more. I was refering to full length S bushing dies, but your right it is not neccessary for getting into reloading. I was just thinking "Pay once cry once".
Click to expand...

Markus

I have 6 .223/5.56 dies and wanted to experiment with the die types and neck runout and to make a long story short my best dies will surprise you. The .223 dies I have that produce the least neck runout are a set full length RCBS dies that are modified with a Forster expander and spindle unit with a Lee die lock ring. Meaning the die and the expander are able to float and self center and produce the least neck runout.

IMG_2140_zpsea657d9e.jpg


Not shown is a Lee Collet die and a Lyman full length die.

dies003_zpsf9af9a52.jpg


What I found out was a case that is full length resized without the expander and spindle installed produced the least neck runout. And when you add the expander and the seating die the neck runout increases, now add brass with uneven neck thicknesses and it gets even worse. And what amazed me was the Forster neck sizing and shoulder bump die produced the worst amount of neck runout.

Bottom line, if you have high quality brass with even case wall and neck thicknesses a good full length resizing die will produce the least amount of runout. The trick is finding good cases to start with and being able to sort through your cases.

Below are some of my "good" Remington .223 cases, and half of these cases were much worse than this with some having as much as .009 variance in thickness. I use these type cases for my AR15s blasting ammo and cases with .003 or less for my AR15 A2 HBAR and Savage .223 bolt action. So remember you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear and good quality brass pays for itself in your group size and accuracy.

IMG_2136_zps079ece9b.jpg


IMG_2137_zps66bcfc13.jpg


And neck turning cases like above and only neck sizing will not center the bullet with the axis of the bore. And why full length resizing improves accuracy because the case body has less effect with bullet alignment and the bullet has some wiggle room to self align with the bore. (rat turd in the violin case) ;)

neckcenter_zps94286f86.jpg
 
Wow, thanks for all the replies, I did not expect that many and with that much information. Love this site!

I am thinking that i will maybe just buy the press and the book for now and get some dies later. I don't see the forster dies on the site for sale, might have to email them and see if they have them.

Also, i know i don't have to spend that much on a press but i over research everything that i buy and like to by the best off the hop. It will be the last press that i buy and i want it to be a good one.

And very interesting info about the full length sizing vs the neck sizing, would have thought it was the other way around.

Thanks again everyone!!
 
Paatz said:
As a newb, consistency of habit in reloading is my immediate goal, not tailoring a cartridge to my gun, which is more secondary at this point.
Just getting to know how to use the tools and getting everything set up properly is probably more important than runout at this point.
Click to expand...

I realize what you are saying is well meant, but it may confuse a new loader/shooter as this thread is meant for newbees.

Actually the most important aspect of reloading is to tailor a cartridge to a specific gun so it will be, above all, safe. At a later date ( after acquiring some experience) of secondary importance is to "tailor" a LOAD FORMULA to improve the guns performance.
 
hmm and I thought all this talk about runout would be confusing to a newb.
I mentored with someone who was kind enough to impart some wisdom, and one thing I took away from that was that in order to work up a load you will have to learn to reload in a consistent, repeatable fashion. Much like practicing your scales when learning to play an instrument. The idea being that those skills become second nature. And safe practices become a constant consistent habit.

Didn't mean to confuse the issue of which dies to get. Just took it from the standpoint of someone who has never ever pressed a bullet.
My first dies were Forster Benchrest neck taper dies, so I'd have to recommend them.
 
OP,
I see from your questions you have already done a bit of research. You should search this form for "neck runout". Its a ##### to say the least and many things cause it. Primarily as other have mentioned, if you tighten down you decapping pin, you will see signs of it. I found that brass is the biggest culprit though. Pour case prep and seating methods will also cause it.

Biggest things I have done to eliminate runout at my loading bench are:

Lapua Brass
VLD Chamfer
RCBS Competition dies. (the comp dies come with a good seating die that won't destroy your budget).
and most of all - talking your sweet ass time while using the press.
 
CTS said:
Wow, thanks for all the replies, I did not expect that many and with that much information. Love this site!

I am thinking that i will maybe just buy the press and the book for now and get some dies later. I don't see the forster dies on the site for sale, might have to email them and see if they have them.

Also, i know i don't have to spend that much on a press but i over research everything that i buy and like to by the best off the hop. It will be the last press that i buy and i want it to be a good one.

And very interesting info about the full length sizing vs the neck sizing, would have thought it was the other way around.

Thanks again everyone!!
Click to expand...

I think you're correct shopping for the Forster Co-ax press. Buying best quality upfront means never needing to upgrade down the road. Don't see any advantage to buying several presses along the way and then upgrading to the same press you wanted all along. If something changes and you decide to sell the Co-ax you will get most of the money spent on the original purchase. I don't own a Co-ax but have several bullet swage presses that are even more precise.
 
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