Need some help
- Thread starter Kendall21
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100% illegal to possess anything greater than 5rd in a mag fed semi auto. Even if the Sap 6 mags fit (they don't) it would not be like the pistol mags in a semi auto rifle it would be illegal! This is Canada know your gun laws or ho to jail.
Welp, I know of a couple people prancing around with 10 round mags that were made for pump action shotguns, and using them in semi-auto mag fed shotguns.
The Mags are different they don't have the last round hold open like the mags made for the semis.
What make this different than using 10 round pistol mags in a rifle?
Show me where it says it by law?
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/bus-ent/20110323-72-eng.htm
IMO point #4 disputes your view.
The only semi-autos out of the current round that came in, are the Uzkon (because the importer got slapped by Miramachi for trying to pull a fast one - long story).
The Derya, Alpharms, and Asena mag fed shotguns all take the same magazines.The ones made specifically for the semi-autos have a notch in the back of the top of the mag that allow a spring loaded tab in the back of the follower to pop out as it reaches the top and activate the last shot bolt hold open.
This notch is not present in the mags made for the pumps, as well as the little tab that pops out of it is not present in the follower for these mags.
HOWEVER
The mags for the pumps will seat and feed in the semi-autos.
As Innercity pointed out, Bulletin #72 is very clear on how this plays out legally. The mags designed for the pumps are legal - as a manual action centre fire, they are not subject to capacity limits. They are distinct from the mags that are designed for the semis. The fact that they fit and function in the semi autos is a happy coincidence.
So, if you have a Derya, Alpharms, or Asena 12 gauge mag fed semi autio... Buy a 10 rounder for the pump shotguns, slap it in, unload it by repeated pulling of the trigger, rinse, repeat. You will have broken exactly zero laws in the process.
If you own an Uzkon... sorry about your luck. The mags for the pumps will not seat properly because Miramachi made the importer have the mag catch location altered.
p.s. Yes, I have personally tested this. Other than the last shot bolt hold open not activating, the 10 rounders are as reliable in these guns as the 5 rounders (so, not very reliable).
The Derya, Alpharms, and Asena mag fed shotguns all take the same magazines.The ones made specifically for the semi-autos have a notch in the back of the top of the mag that allow a spring loaded tab in the back of the follower to pop out as it reaches the top and activate the last shot bolt hold open.
This notch is not present in the mags made for the pumps, as well as the little tab that pops out of it is not present in the follower for these mags.
HOWEVER
The mags for the pumps will seat and feed in the semi-autos.
As Innercity pointed out, Bulletin #72 is very clear on how this plays out legally. The mags designed for the pumps are legal - as a manual action centre fire, they are not subject to capacity limits. They are distinct from the mags that are designed for the semis. The fact that they fit and function in the semi autos is a happy coincidence.
So, if you have a Derya, Alpharms, or Asena 12 gauge mag fed semi autio... Buy a 10 rounder for the pump shotguns, slap it in, unload it by repeated pulling of the trigger, rinse, repeat. You will have broken exactly zero laws in the process.
If you own an Uzkon... sorry about your luck. The mags for the pumps will not seat properly because Miramachi made the importer have the mag catch location altered.
p.s. Yes, I have personally tested this. Other than the last shot bolt hold open not activating, the 10 rounders are as reliable in these guns as the 5 rounders (so, not very reliable).
Nope.
Read what i wrote again.
There is an actual physical difference between the ones designed and made for pumps, and the ones designed and made for semis. Legally, we're on much more solid ground here than either the LAR-15 mags or the Beowulf mags, and both of those are still readily available on the market, and Miramachi has backed way the heck off on giving out "opinions" on those mags, do to the crapstorm created the last time they tried to ban the Beowulf mags.
I was under the impression that because they are designed center fire mags that makes them illegal. Just like if someone were to make a 10 round bolt mag that happen to fit a semi auto that would also be illegal?
CFO office confirmed it was infact illegal for any more than 5 rnds to be fired from a semi auto mag fed shotgun even if the 10rounders fit? Are they wrong, is this a grey area or is this infact an illegal act?
jeepcjaholic
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island B.C.
Why is this on here? Did you not take your firearms course? Semi auto center fire is 5 rds. Most RCMP are clueless when it come to firearm laws as well, so if you do find a pump mag that fits have some paper work on your person. I went threw a bit of hell with my Valmet m78. Called it full auto prohib! Carefull and know your laws sir
It comes down to what the mag was designed for, not what it actually functions in.
This is why we get 10 round pistol mags working in carbine rifles without breaking the law. The same principle applies here. And there are a number of existing examples.
A key reason why the Australia International Arms .308 Enfields, and their 10 round mags, command the price they do, is because the mags just happen to fit and function in M1A style rifles (like the Norc M305 rifles).
10 round LAR pistol mags sell like hotcakes because they work fine in any 5.56 AR, and most of the 5.56 Non R semit auto rifles (like the Tavor, Su-16, Type 97, etc. etc.)
Same goes for the 5 round Beowulf mags - they only hold 5 rounds of .50 Beowulf, but will hold 14-15 rounds of 5.56 (depending on the pinning job) and work in any rifle that can take AR style mags.
Still nice and legal.
Any of the Non-R and R carbines that accept Glock pistol mags... 10 rounds. Good to go.
There are a lot of examples of how this works.
And again, with these mags, there is a visible, physical difference between the semi auto mags, and the pump action mags.
Will a random RCMP or other LEO know the law? Unlikely. And you will likely end up with some s'plaining to do at the police station. But you'll get your gun, mags, and freedom back as soon as they call Miramachi.
Yes but those are diffrent cases altogether,
1. Pistol mags
2. Beowulf mags (just like a 3.5" shotgun tube, just fitting more smaller rounds than designed for
The shotgun mag is neither situation, if this was the case a company would make millions by designing a mag for a bolt action .223 IE: Mossberg MVP that is 30rnd then out gun laws are mute... There is a reason this doesn't work it's illegal because it's not a pistol mag it's a "center fire" mag designed for a center fire gun.
The Australia Enfield mags are a direct comparison. They're designed for a bolt action rifle, but happen to fit in an M1A style of rifle. They also happen to have a physical difference with "true" M14 style mags (no hole in the front of the mag).
The mags for the pump shotguns, are, in fact, different. But they will fit and feed in the semis. And the law is clear - it's about what the mag was designed for. Not what it fits and feeds in.
The Mossberg MVP is NOT a direct comparison. The MVP was designed to accept AR Mags, not the other way around. It's a chicken and egg thing.
Please seen point #3 in bulletin 72, and then read #4 again real slow.
The pump action mags are designed and manufactured for the pumps, they are by design different than the semi auto magazines. they fall nicely into point #4
Taking a rivetless USGI 30 round Mag and slapping it into a MVP is Illegal, or a 7615 like in point #3.
You still have not posted any link to anything legal stating your case.
Just to drive home that these are, in fact, different mags, a couple of pics I snapped a couple minutes ago to show the difference.
While the difference isn't massive, it is significant enough to demonstrate that they are, in fact, different mags designed for different guns.
The one on nthe top is a 10 rounder designed for the pump guns. The one on the bottom is a 5 rounder designed for the semi-autos.
Notice the cut on the spine of the semi auto to allow the pop-out that activates the last shot bolt hold open on the semi-auto 5 rounder. it is not present on the 10 rounder.
When I take these to the range or the farm, I always make sure I have one of the 5 rounders on me, so I can clearly demonstrate that the mags are, in fact, different.
View attachment 59148
View attachment 59147
That difference is what keeps everything legal.
While the difference isn't massive, it is significant enough to demonstrate that they are, in fact, different mags designed for different guns.
The one on nthe top is a 10 rounder designed for the pump guns. The one on the bottom is a 5 rounder designed for the semi-autos.
Notice the cut on the spine of the semi auto to allow the pop-out that activates the last shot bolt hold open on the semi-auto 5 rounder. it is not present on the 10 rounder.
When I take these to the range or the farm, I always make sure I have one of the 5 rounders on me, so I can clearly demonstrate that the mags are, in fact, different.
View attachment 59148
View attachment 59147
That difference is what keeps everything legal.
Dexter Morgan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Blah, Blah, Blah.
Yes. Everyone already knows everything you're saying. Everyone is familiar with LAR and Beowulf mags etc.
But these mags are specifically (and blatantly) designed to pretend to be different mags.
It's my opinion that they're poking a hornets nest by selling these so called "pump only" magazines.
Time will tell I guess.
Yes. Everyone already knows everything you're saying. Everyone is familiar with LAR and Beowulf mags etc.
But these mags are specifically (and blatantly) designed to pretend to be different mags.
It's my opinion that they're poking a hornets nest by selling these so called "pump only" magazines.
Time will tell I guess.
These guns have been on the market in Turkey for almost a decade. They're only "recent" on the Canadian market.
The importers went through all the hoops to get the FRT #'s for the relevant guns, and import everything in a clear manner.
