Not sure if that's accurate. Guys ask about a factory offering, then a couple members come in and tell them they need to hotrod whatever caliber they are asking about to dominate in f class or whatever. Kthomas then recommends skipping the original cartridge choice and just picking something that can push those same bullets with ease. These threads always end the same way. OP asks a simple question, thread takes a nose dive and the OP either ignores the thread he started or is more confused than when he started
New 223 target recomendations
- Thread starter whitey07
- Start date
Not sure if that's accurate. Guys ask about a factory offering, then a couple members come in and tell them they need to hotrod whatever caliber they are asking about to dominate in f class or whatever. Kthomas then recommends skipping the original cartridge choice and just picking something that can push those same bullets with ease. These threads always end the same way. OP asks a simple question, thread takes a nose dive and the OP either ignores the thread he started or is more confused than when he started
I don't think so.
But I'm sure by now the OP is awfully confused, so congrats to CGN for that.
My .223 uses 25.4gr of powder behind an 88gr bullet to 3000fps. Not sure what more you could ask for. I expect barrel life in the 1000s. Simple .223 chamber throated for long bullets. If I were to do it again, it would be a .223ai chamber. .22 Creedmoor would be on my radar, but not sure I need any faster. I dial close to the same elevation when I dial my .338 Lapua to 1000 yards…
Here's an example of what I noted earlier in this thread...
The 22BR is noted above as an accurate .224 cartridge, but it gets credit for that accuracy because the case is short enough to allow the 0.190" free bore shown here. You need to understand that a long snug free bore is what aligns the long VLD bullet with the rifling and this is key to accuracy with VLDs. It also allows bullets to be seated longer which increases case capacity. Thereby allowing greater MV without pressure.
0.190" free bore is unheard of in the world of 223 Rem, but not for any good reason... tradition, stubbornness and close mindedness are the best reasons that come to mind. A 0.155" free bore is considered long for 223 but most are much shorter than that, but there no good reason for it.
Don't get hung up on the names of legendary cartridges. Instead, examine what characteristics of that stereotype are the reason they are legendary and apply that logic to the cartridge of your choice,
So my thinking was why not apply the winning characteristics of the 22BR to the 223? So I had a 223 reamer made with 0.190 free bore... It's not rocket science and any decent pipe fitter can spend a couple hundred bucks to do the same.
The most significant limitation to the 223 is that it is so often produced with actions that are too short that feed from mags that are too short. Its time to toss the SAAMI spec out the window and start configuring the 223 so it can actually perform at extended distances. The 223 needs to shake off the "training rifle" status it so often get tagged with.
The 22BR is noted above as an accurate .224 cartridge, but it gets credit for that accuracy because the case is short enough to allow the 0.190" free bore shown here. You need to understand that a long snug free bore is what aligns the long VLD bullet with the rifling and this is key to accuracy with VLDs. It also allows bullets to be seated longer which increases case capacity. Thereby allowing greater MV without pressure.
0.190" free bore is unheard of in the world of 223 Rem, but not for any good reason... tradition, stubbornness and close mindedness are the best reasons that come to mind. A 0.155" free bore is considered long for 223 but most are much shorter than that, but there no good reason for it.
Don't get hung up on the names of legendary cartridges. Instead, examine what characteristics of that stereotype are the reason they are legendary and apply that logic to the cartridge of your choice,
So my thinking was why not apply the winning characteristics of the 22BR to the 223? So I had a 223 reamer made with 0.190 free bore... It's not rocket science and any decent pipe fitter can spend a couple hundred bucks to do the same.
The most significant limitation to the 223 is that it is so often produced with actions that are too short that feed from mags that are too short. Its time to toss the SAAMI spec out the window and start configuring the 223 so it can actually perform at extended distances. The 223 needs to shake off the "training rifle" status it so often get tagged with.
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Here's an example of what I noted earlier in this thread...
The 22BR is noted above as an accurate .224 cartridge, but it gets credit for that accuracy because the case is short enough to allow the 0.190" free bore shown here. You need to understand that a long snug free bore is what aligns the long VLD bullet with the rifling and this is key to accuracy with VLDs. It also allows bullets to be seated longer which increases case capacity. Thereby allowing greater MV without pressure.
0.190" free bore is unheard of in the world of 223 Rem, but not for any good reason... tradition, stubbornness and close mindedness are the best reasons that come to mind. A 0.155" free bore is considered long for 223 but most are much shorter than that, but there no good reason for it.
Don't get hung up on the names of legendary cartridges. Instead, examine what characteristics of that stereotype are the reason they are legendary and apply that logic to the cartridge of your choice,
So my thinking was why not apply the winning characteristics of the 22BR to the 223? So I had a 223 reamer made with 0.190 free bore... It's not rocket science and any decent pipe fitter can spend a couple hundred bucks to do the same.
The most significant limitation to the 223 is that it is so often produced with actions that are too short that feed from mags that are too short. Its time to toss the SAAMI spec out the window and start configuring the 223 so it can actually perform at extended distances. The 223 needs to shake off the "training rifle" status it so often get tagged with.
Yeah you could do that.
But then you are still limited by action choice, mag lengths, case capacity, etc. to try and optimize a .223, and you will still probably have to get a custom barrel to get the proper twist rate and chamber specs.
Or you could just get any action with a standard .470" bolt face, get a barrel spun up for .22BR (or other centerfire .22), MDT mags or mag kits and you are set. It will be more efficient, ballistically superior, and you won't be pushing the limits of the brass to get decent velocities with the heavy .22 projectiles.
Whatever floats your boat. Your .223 obviously works for you, and that's great. But hardly something the OP is looking for, if he is looking at picking up an off the rack rifle. Admittedly neither is the .22BR, and I wouldn't suggest that for anyone looking to simply purchase an off the rack rifle. But if you are going to go through the effort to customize a rifle, then there are better centerfire .22's to do that with, IMO.
Anyways, I'm done on the topic, no point in debating this further and sidetracking the OP's thread.
Back to the OP, the best value in precision rifles right now are Tikka's. Even with their proprietary footprint, they are getting a lot of aftermarket support due to their popularity. They are a quality rifle, one that you can easily build up off of if you want to as you shooting progresses. Out of the box they shoot great. There are aftermarket triggers, stocks & chassis', barrels (including shouldered prefits), etc that are available for the Tikka platform.
Personally, I would avoid the bigger names. Savage, Remington, etc. You get what you pay for, and there's a reason why those rifles are really cheap comparably.
Yes I use AI Pattern AccurateMags and mostly Hornady 88 grain ELDM.
I did modify the mags as per the video posted earlier in this thread. I selected the AccurateMag specifically for this reason... The plastic mags are too difficult to modify for longer rounds.
kthomas, Modifying any 223 to run the load I describe can be done at home using a hand throating tool from Pacific Tool and Gage. I modified my Mags at home using a straight stick, JB Weld, a drill press from Canadian Tire, a couple C clamps and layers of frog tape to incrementally offset the cuts. Hardly a significant effort. All anyone really needs is a chassis that will accommodate AI pattern mags. As for brass and reloading components, I doubt there is a more popular or affordable round in the world, so theres that. While Remington may not be the choice of the well funded, it is perfectly acceptable for most and probably all they will ever need. You have defended Remington yourself in the past and it surprises me that you've flip flopped on that point.
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That's why I don't go with cheap and inexperienced gunsmiths.
I also don't put hand tools near by precision machined chamber.
coleman1495
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Whitecourt
Yup a Tikka CTR, a bunch of 77smk bullets, and a bag of Black Sheep Brass. The OP will have himself a formidable mid range rig.No need to complicate things until he starts trying to shoot long range.
Nice, you'll enjoy it. If you handload, get your self some 77CCs/77SMKs/75BTHP/ELDMs, Varget/8208 and enjoy. If not, try and find some match ammo with the same bulletsShould be able to hit 2900ish with no problem, makes for great performance inside 700ish yards.
That's a great rifle for a great price. I'd ditch both those stocks and drop it in a krg bravo. I had the same setup and regret selling it. It was a great gun and fun to shoot out to 7 or 800 yards
As I've said earlier , I had a .223 R700 Milspec and it was fantastic with the Hornady 75BTHP Match bullet and Varget . I found that it was more accurate then the Tikka Varmint rifle .
Maybe it was just my rifle or my handloads , but , I don't think so . It was a great rifle as is .
Maybe it was just my rifle or my handloads , but , I don't think so . It was a great rifle as is .
coleman1495
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Whitecourt
Might not stabilize 75gn in -20C. That may or may not be an issue for you.
