New 358 Win Improved

This is the load I would go with...

With those .550 BC Accubonds that will expand down below 1800fps and if the load is accurate enough this is a 450 yard rifle/cartridge combo that will get the job done.

338F 225gr Accubond @ 2500 fps
+2" @ 100y, -10.5" @ 300y, -28.5" @ 400y
400y velocity = 1950 fps, energy = 1900 ft lbs

Nice gun TB but in my opinion it needs an iron or ghost ring sight option...
 
todbartell said:
Because the 338f does anything the 358 will up close, but not be a handicap if I am faced with a 350 or 400 yard shot. I've seen 4 elk shot since I started hunting them in 2007, average distance is about 60 yards. A 35 Rem would work just fine. But theres always the chance of a poke across a cut or swamp, nice to have a rifle that has a bit of legs if needed, while still being fairly compact and portable (compared to 24" barreled 7mm & 300 Mags)

here's a bit of a comparison :
338F 225gr Accubond @ 2500 fps
+2" @ 100y, -10.5" @ 300y, -28.5" @ 400y
400y velocity = 1950 fps, energy = 1900 ft lbs

358 Win 225gr Accubond @ 2500 fps
+2" @ 100y, -11.5" @ 300y, -31" @ 400y
400y velocity = 1800 fps, energy = 1625 ft lbs

there ya have it folks. :dancingbanana:
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Nice gun and chambering, but it's not so wonderful that it breaks the laws of physics.

The 358 should be able to push same weight bullets 75-100 fps faster than the 338 at the same pressures, so it makes me wonder why the 358 was loaded down. Check out the trajectory of the same 35 cal bullet at 2600 fps, and then run some data on a 250gr bullet and you'll see that the 358 Win can push a 250gr at almost the same MV as a 338 can push a 225. The 338 and 358 are virtually interchangeable, but if anything, the 358 has the slight upper hand.
 
With .421 BC .358" 225gr Accubond the trajectories even with a 100fps higher velocity would be almost identical and @ 400 yards the 358 would have 100 ft lbs of energy less than the .550 BC 225gr Accubond out of the 338F.
 
I was just about to post a similar observation, Andy. Load them to the same pressure, and the 358 definitely goes faster. :)

From real life experiences, I have seen, or have first hand knowledge during hunting trips with friends, probably two dozen truly big game animals, moose, bear, and mountain caribou ( which are the size of mature elk) taken with the 358 Win. It is an amazing performer, and as I have posted here before is easily a 300 yd hunting cartridge. Bert killed a big moose a few years ago that was around 400 plus. The only problem was the bullet didn't expand, just had the lead spitzer smeared off. It did expend the moose.

My preference is still the 358, however I'm sure the 338 Federal will be a fine big game round. It fits right in between two other great ones, so there can't be many flies on that.

We've seen the rifle, now we need some pictures of that elk when you bag him. :cool:

Ted
 
Camp Cook said:
With .421 BC .358" 225gr Accubond the trajectories even with a 100fps higher velocity would be almost identical and @ 400 yards the 358 would have 100 ft lbs of energy less than the .550 BC 225gr Accubond out of the 338F.
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True, but you guys are missing the greatest attribute of the .338 bore....Sectional density.

Compare the 333/200gr to the 358/225 grain ballistic tips...The sectional densities are identical. ;)

There be why the 358 sucks. :D

TB,
Sad to say that your rifle is as ugly as a bag of hammers....Functional though it may be.
Not to worry....Lots of game gets shot by ugly rifles! :p
 
this thread needs more eye candy

my .358 improved, aka 338.fed

rifle 2.jpg

rifle.jpg
 
grit said:
Both are 200yd-250y rifles the 358 just makes a bigger hole. The 358 win has to be one of the most under appreciated cartridges ever. Calling the 338 federal a 300 to 400yd cartridge is a huge stretch.
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I think you're underestimating the cartridge if you think it's a 200 yarder :eek: Sure, it aint no 257 Wby or 7STW but it's not a 444 Marlin. With turrets or a ballistic plex drop reticle, a guy doesnt need scorching hot muzzle velocity to accurately place a bullet at 400-500 yards. I know this because I've shot alot of 140gr 260 Remington @ 2700 fps, at ranges from 300 to 1050 yards.

The 338f has enough steam to open up most bullets at 400 yards, some to almost 500. The same cannot be said for the 358. All hail the new king of 35 caliber - the 338 Federal! :D :dancingbanana::dancingbanana:
 
Nice looking rifle. And nothing against the 338Federal. But if you want to improve a 358 Win, just handload it.
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It's essentially a handloading proposition anyway.

With .421 BC .358" 225gr Accubond the trajectories even with a 100fps higher velocity would be almost identical and @ 400 yards the 358 would have 100 ft lbs of energy less than the .550 BC 225gr Accubond out of the 338F.
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Energy is only half the story, cross sectional area the other half, and likely the reason why the .358 has a reputation for hitting so hard. Much like comparing the merits of the .44 Mag vs. .45 Colt, .44 has a slight velocity edge, but the .45 can use a greater range of bullets and hits harder with them. Also the .45's reputation is hampered by less than adequate factory ammo just like the .358. In the end when loaded to compareable pressures and bullets the .358 is neck and neck with the .338, little worse BC, little more area, really splitting hairs a bit when you keep them within reasonable range limits. I suspect too that the .358 with it's larger bore size can achieve it's potential in shorter barrel lengths.
 
todbartell said:
.........The 338f has enough steam to open up most bullets at 400 yards, some to almost 500.
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I would have to see that, to believe it. Most 338 bullets are designed to be started out well over 300 fps faster than the Federal gets them going. In fact I have seen some 338 Win Magnum loads that did not expand well, at those ranges. One factory 250 Partition barely opened on a big bull moose, broadside at 400 plus. Just penciled through the lungs.

The moose was dead, but it took a long time, and when opened up there was actually very little damage to the lungs. Wound was quite similar to the bull my buddy shot with his 358 Win at beyond 400.

Ted
 
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Why not? said:
I would have to see that, to believe it. Most 338 bullets are designed to be started out more than 300 fps faster than the Federal gets them going. In fact I have seen some 338 Win Magnum loads that did not expand well, at all, at those ranges.

Ted
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Just look at my earlier example with the .338" 225gr Accubonds like all Accubonds they are designed to open up/expand under 1800fps (due to the bonding process as well as the jacket design) the 338F is still doing 1950fps with this bullet at over 400 yards.
 
Man, you guys are particularly hard on todbartell.

I like the gun myself, and I'd consider the caliber a very respectable general purpose big game killer.

Was it the "358 improved" thing that hit a nerve?
 
todbartell said:
i think you're underestimating the cartridge if you think it's a 200 yarder :eek: Sure, it aint no 257 wby or 7stw but it's not a 444 marlin. With turrets or a ballistic plex drop reticle, a guy doesnt need scorching hot muzzle velocity to accurately place a bullet at 400-500 yards. I know this because i've shot alot of 140gr 260 remington @ 2700 fps, at ranges from 300 to 1050 yards.

The 338f has enough steam to open up most bullets at 400 yards, some to almost 500. The same cannot be said for the 358.
...Bla Bla Bla...
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185 TTSX?

Looks like its good for 1800fps at 500 yards. :D
 
I like it TB .In fact I seem to have a spare old BLR with a screwed up barrel and some Dark Curly Birch laminate and I know right where to get a 338 barrel.Lets see half round half octagon , stainless , 22" hmmm
 
Really nice looking shooter there TB. Thanks for the pics and description. I especially liked seeing those Leup rings. Please post a few pics when you scope it. I think you're really going to like it for elk duty - although the bore is .020" shy of perfection.:D
 
X-fan said:
185 TTSX?

Looks like its good for 1800fps at 500 yards. :D
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I never said the 185TTSX was a 500y bullet ;) 200gr Accubond would get there (1800 fps @ 500y), 225gr Accubond the same. 210gr Scirocco..215gr Sierra GameKing BTSP, 225gr SST

such bullets do not exist for the 358 Win. Best a guy could do is the 225gr Accubond @ 2575 fps, clocking 1700 fps @ 500y

I will likely shoot my elk at spitting distance like I did last fall anyways so this is all in good fun :D

 
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