New and terrible - how do I get better? (Vancouver-area)

philchau

philchau

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Vancouver, BC
I tried trap for the first time over the weekend and I was terrible at it, I actually got worse over the three games that I played.

I got some good pointers from the other shooters (keep following the bird, just stay slightly ahead, stack the beads, focus on the bird) but at the same time I feel like I need to shoot more bird more frequently than the bi-monthly games at PoCo.

Obviously I need practice, is there anywhere in the lower mainland area where I can get some instruction - maybe lock the clay machine in one place and shoot clays over and over again?

Thanks!
 
Beginning at trapshooting

Go to a range with one buddy and a hand cocked trap machine - they throw slower birds than the club machines.
Start out with birds all sent out in the same direction.
Shoot to have fun, and don't shoot too many at one time.
The old retired guys at our club shoot birds from a hand cocked machine. If you miss the next guy in the line can bust the bird. None of us take this shooting too seriously, but we sure have fun.
Our newest convert, retired but new to trap shooting, just bust 5 in a row to finish his box of shells last Wednesday. You should have seen the smiles.
 
Some good advice above. Look for a competent coach.

First pattern your gun (both barrels, if you have 2) and all your choke tubes. It is amazing how many tubes and guns don't pattern worth a crap. Do this from a bench rest position at 13 yards. This will tell you where the gun is shooting. For a new trap shooter, what I would like to see, is that the pattern is centered to the point of aim and about 60% of the shot is above the point of aim and 40% below, but mainly centered.

Second stand in front of a mirror close your eyes and mount the shotgun to your shoulder. Open your eyes and you should be looking down the center of the rib through the beads. The main thing you are looking for here is that the barrels are not canted or twisted. The barrels should be straight up and down. Gun fit is a very important component of being able to shoot well consistently. It is also very difficult to discuss all aspects on a forum like this.

Many people try to shoot a shotgun at a moving clay target like they would shoot a rifle. They use the beads and aim the gun. You can't do that and expect to hit much. You must look at the target and swing the gun through the target. Paint it like you would with a brush. See the target as it comes out of the house follow it with your eyes and the gun will automatically go to the target. Now what you need to do is develop a visual relationship between the target and the end of the barrel. In other words, where do I need to have the barrel compared to the target to break the target.

Thirdly, go to the trap field and set the machine for hard left angles. Shoot from post 5 until you are breaking the targets. Once you are breaking targets consistently, move to the next post to the left. Continue on down the line until you get to post 1. Once you are breaking them well from post 1 turn the machine to throw hard right targets. Same drill, just start on post 1 and work your way down to 5.

There are a whole bunch of other things involved, such as, gun fit, hold points, foot positioning, one eye / two eye, eye dominance and looking in the right place for the target. These things are better explained in person by a good coach.

Good luck.
 
How fast should I lead the target? When I am leading out am I trying to match the speed of the bird going out? Slightly faster? Slightly slower?

I think even thought I was leading it, maybe I'm slow and I see the wad behind the bird.

In terms of "fit" - I find the ribs and the beads of the gun on the high side and I have crank my head pretty low to stack the beads - do I have a poor fitting shotgun?
 
philchau said:
How fast should I lead the target? When I am leading out am I trying to match the speed of the bird going out? Slightly faster? Slightly slower?

I think even thought I was leading it, maybe I'm slow and I see the wad behind the bird.

In terms of "fit" - I find the ribs and the beads of the gun on the high side and I have crank my head pretty low to stack the beads - do I have a poor fitting shotgun?
Click to expand...

Swing through the target for trap ... see the target and then move the gun through it. You will have to be ahead of an angled bird ... how much depends on you and what you see. Once you start hitting them consistently, you will "learn" how much you need to lead them. That is why I suggested the "Thirdly" step.

The wad starts to slow down as soon as it leaves the barrel. Look at the target ... never mind the wad (LOL).

Gun fit is a very detailed process. If it is not hurting you it is probably fine for now. Try not to crank your head down. Don't worry about stacking the beads, but be aware that the more rib you see the higher the gun shoots. The main thing is that you are consistent in your gun mount and that you see the same thing each time you mount the gun.
 
I have two bits of advice. First find a competent instructor and then ignore everyone else's advice. The guys at the club mean well and are trying to be helpful but as they threw out random bits of advice and you tried to incorporate it your scores got worse. What was happening is that you were thinking about what you were told and trying to ensure you did it during the few seconds before and after the target was thrown. It's a sure recipe for lost targets.

Once you find an instructor follow his path. There is no one method to shooting trap and there are variations on eye hold, foot position, stance and gun hold that all work for someone.

When you learn a system stay with it and resist trying to change or experiment. Learn a set of sound fundamentals and ingrain them into your subconscious. Eventually fewer of those pesky little discs will be getting away. :)
 
This might seem obvious but if you are left eye dominant, shooting right and keep both eyes open you are going to miss every single bird.
I use a cheater dot to blur my left eye, works like a charm.
 
I shoot Pitt Meadows Gun Club. It's a small club with about 70 members, laid back but no shortage of experienced and helpful shooters. We shoot wednesday nights and sundays at noon to 4pm (skeet 10am to noon).

This wednesday isn't going to be a good time to visit as there is a social going on with the Northwest Trapshooters group which will host their shoot thursday to saturday and the usual crowd won't be practicing.
Send a pm if you want more info.
Dan
 
well i'm new to shotgunning too. Luckily my raneg is full of greyhairs who give good advice. I started off doing skeet and did horribly then did one round of trap last sunday and got 22 of 25 birds :dancingbanana: basically you just need alot of practice. i go out every sunday and shoot 100 or so birds. sunday is the practice league night for my range. i don't shoot the leauge but i do go to to teh practice so i can get better for my next 3 gun match. my last match my shotgun skills left much to be desired lol.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by claybuster
first find a competent instructor and then ignore everyone else's advice.

X3...basically
Certainly nothing wrong with finding a good teacher, but I have found that professional instructors are in short supply and it isn't easy to find one that can actually go beyond what one finds in books or videos. I have found over the years that I work best around people with open and enquiring minds. There are a fair number of good shooters around and some of them are this way. One can often pick things up from them and they are still interested enough in learning to be fun to talk to. After all, they are hitting birds for some reason. But you have to have a decent presentation and enough knowledge about yourself and how you shoot to know whether what they are doing, or recommending, applies to you. Happily, I like to learn by reading, watching videos and watching good shooters, then trying things out in practice. You can get the basics this way if you can't find a pro to teach you, and if it is how you like to learn. The rules about developing from this point are simple enough; if it improves your hit rate keep doing it, if it doesn't, change something, and practice, practice, practice. The video on trap that I like right now is Ralph Kline's. The one on skeet that I think is best is Todd Benders. Total cost of these items will be around $125 to $150, cheap at twice the price. Glad I bought them both. Fred
 
It does sound like your gun doesn't fit you. It should come to your cheek / shoulder naturally and your eye should be in the right spot every time. If you have to do ANYTHING beyond that - squash your cheek, bend your neck, stick your tongue into your cheek - then you need to have your gun adjusted to your freakishly deformed body. :) You will be amazed at the difference.
 
BCFred said:
Certainly nothing wrong with finding a good teacher, but I have found that professional instructors are in short supply and it isn't easy to find one that can actually go beyond what one finds in books or videos. I have found over the years that I work best around people with open and enquiring minds. There are a fair number of good shooters around and some of them are this way. One can often pick things up from them and they are still interested enough in learning to be fun to talk to. After all, they are hitting birds for some reason. But you have to have a decent presentation and enough knowledge about yourself and how you shoot to know whether what they are doing, or recommending, applies to you. Happily, I like to learn by reading, watching videos and watching good shooters, then trying things out in practice. You can get the basics this way if you can't find a pro to teach you, and if it is how you like to learn. The rules about developing from this point are simple enough; if it improves your hit rate keep doing it, if it doesn't, change something, and practice, practice, practice. The video on trap that I like right now is Ralph Kline's. The one on skeet that I think is best is Todd Benders. Total cost of these items will be around $125 to $150, cheap at twice the price. Glad I bought them both. Fred
Click to expand...
Videos and books are definitely worthwhile in the absence of an instructor. But having gone that route I've found added benefit from hands-on teaching from people who know their stuff.

What I've also found is that the advice or critiques from fellow shooters are often not that much help. It doesn't do much good if someone yells "You're behind" if he can't explain why I was behind and what to do to prevent it. A swing through shooter telling you how much to be in front of a target doesn't do you much good if you are shooting sustained lead or move/mount/shoot. Advice on eye hold from a two-eyed shooter if you shoot one-eyed or foot position from a left handed shooter if you're right handed isn't helpful. An experienced instructor should be able to offer help that is specific to you and aid in developing a practice plan that will help you improve.

It's a good point about the lack of good instructors. I'm not familiar with the BC scene but could name a couple in Ontario. Also, the top instructors are for hire and will come to Canada if you put a group together. I know that Nora and Randy Ross, Gil and Vicki Ash, Andy Duffy and John Kreuger have all held clinics in Ontario in the past few years.

But the books and videos are very helpful and definitely worth the purchase price.
 
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