new barrel needed

Thats funny, I should call Ted, he may get a laugh out of it, or maybe not:eek:
I have 2 Gaillard barrels, and Ted makes an awesome Barrel, one on the post i put up . That statement was nasty, and un called for.

I do wonder about a statement on fluteing not worth the money, I question that cause of aloth of barrel makers do this. I heard it stiffens the barrel, provides better cooling, and lightens the barrel, one of these gotta be true.
Frank
 
Frank Fluteing does all of the things you mention to a degree, it can stiffen a lighter contour barrel, it does add some surface area, so it has more to heat and more to cool, and it does lighten a barrel marginally.
It also makes a barrel more expensive, but so far nothing I have seen proves a fluted barrel shoots better. I have seen several that did not perform well though.
The fluting thing is about the same as the moly thing, either you buy it or you don't. Personally I am with Dennis here, and don't buy it.
 
Actually I think if you take two barrels contoured the same and flute one barrel, it will be lighter than the other, but it will not be as stiff.

If you take two barrels of different contour and flute the heavier one to make it the same weight as the lighter barrel, then the fluted barrel will be stiffer.
 
guntech said:
Actually I think if you take two barrels contoured the same and flute one barrel, it will be lighter than the other, but it will not be as stiff.

If you take two barrels of different contour and flute the heavier one to make it the same weight as the lighter barrel, then the fluted barrel will be stiffer.
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Dennis you are correct here.
 
PEI ROB said:
Joe, you are correct :D
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Rob...Great thanks:eek: . I wasn't too sure :confused: my mechanical engineering degree would help me work through this problem... :D :D

Not being a structural engineer and all....:redface: If I recall this topic has been discussed many times on just about every gunsmithing/shooting forum. I believe Lilja also discusses it...
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
Frank Fluteing does all of the things you mention to a degree, it can stiffen a lighter contour barrel, it does add some surface area, so it has more to heat and more to cool, and it does lighten a barrel marginally.
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I am surprised about this. I always believed that the weight saving was the biggest avantage and had a hard time believing that taking away material would make it stiffer.
 
The weight saving is mere ounces, and not many of them. The stiffness is due to the longitudinal slots cut down the barrel.
Joe would be better than I to explain this, with his engineering background.
I still don't fully understand this either. Ford tried to stiffen the frames of their trucks in the early 80s, they figured by having hoes cut in the frame channel it would lighten the truck some, which it did, unfortunately it also stiffened the frame not allowing it to flex as much under load, resulting in cracks forming around the holes they had purposely cutout.
My belief is that fluting can disturb the natural harmonics of the barrel, I do not know if this is correct, but I do know the rifles I build without fluted barrels usually shoot better groups.
 
Why Flute?

Benchrest shooters have fluted barrels and were still able to stay competitive. The late great Skip Talbot proved this. I doubt that with most guns and chamberings we are talking about you could not tell the difference in the size of the groups if the barrel was fluted properly. Maybe in a rail gun chambered in 6PPC?

Barrel fluting saves weight and you can play with the balance of the barrel to a certain extent. For some shooting disciplines weight is important and every little bit helps.

I still don't understand how taking metal away from a barrel makes it stiffer?
 
I am niether a Gunsmith or an Engineer but the way I understand it is the strength of a cylindrical piece of material is related to its surface area.
If you take a piece of solid stock of say 7/8"and a piece of 7/8" tube the tubing will resist more before bending because it has more surface area. Given this the fluted barrel has more surface area than the unfluted barrel thus giving it greater strength.
There are probably technical terms for this but I don't know them.
 
Well - To get technical, stiffness is based upon a property called the moment of inertia - for a sphere, moment of inertia varies with diameter to the power 4. In the above example, the bar stock is stiffer - but not necessarily by very much, as the strength is realized from the outer fibre of the material.
For a fluted barrel and a plain barrel of the same dia, the plain barrel is stiffer by a fair amount as outermost material has been removed.
I believe that fluted barrels were originally conceived to be a way of getting optimal stiffness for a given weight. Moreover, the extended surface would facilitate more rapid cooling via convection heat transfer - like the fins in a car radiator.
 
cosmic said:
Well - To get technical, stiffness is based upon a property called the moment of inertia - for a sphere, moment of inertia varies with diameter to the power 4. In the above example, the bar stock is stiffer - but not necessarily by very much, as the strength is realized from the outer fibre of the material.
For a fluted barrel and a plain barrel of the same dia, the plain barrel is stiffer by a fair amount as outermost material has been removed.
I believe that fluted barrels were originally conceived to be a way of getting optimal stiffness for a given weight. Moreover, the extended surface would facilitate more rapid cooling via convection heat transfer - like the fins in a car radiator.
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Yup what he said:D :D :D :D
 
Rick (ATR) are you really having good results with the gain-twist barrels in long range applications?
I like the theory behind gain-twist; but, I understood that a good predictor of barrel accuracy was how precisly the twist rate was maintained, or is this old-tech?
 
I believe there is only one or two people in North America making gain twist barrels.
Ron Smith is one, in Winborne, Alberta.
I have three of his barrels on rifles, and they are all VERY accurate for 1K shooting.
Cat
 
Spatter. Gain twist is older technology, date back to WW1 and was employed mostly on the really big guns for tanks, and alot on the battleships .
The idea is that the bulet progressively attains more spin as it moves down the barrel, so initial twist could be 1 in 24 to 8 finished twist.
This keeps throat erosion at bay longer it seems ( I have no firm data , just personal experience) and helps keep the jackets intact on real thin jacketed bullets.
Ron as mentioned does make gain twist barrels, and I have had truly outstanding success using his barrels, most of my custom rifles I try to get Rons barrels considered for. Gain is a far more difficult rifiling process to instal, but for barrel burners it seems to help quite a bit.
 
Running a convex milling cutter along nearly the full length of a rifle barrel must induce some serious stresses in the barrel material, and that can’t be very good for accuracy .
Is it not recommended, that rifle barrel fluting be done only when a barrel is in the early stages of fabrication? And then stress-relieved before completion of the bore?
Not with so-called cryogenics, but during a proper heat treatment procedure. That cryogenic stress relieving method must be one of the biggest folly in gun performance enhancement.
 
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