New barrel ,new ladder test ,Well Sheet!!!Update

Kelly Timoffee

Kelly Timoffee

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Well took the newly barreled Vanguard out for the first test. 300WM , 250 yards.

190gr LRAB , 3.500" OAL , 0.050" Jump,

H1000 Powder , 215M primers, Hornady brass.

Can't say I'm very impressed, try other powders I suppose, figured the H1000 would of sealed the deal right off the hop.

:redface:
 
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You're right.... That's not very awe inspiring right off the get go. IMR 7828 has been a good performer for me in 7 mm mag and 300 rum. That would be what I'd try next. And maybe a 180 or 200 grain bullet like an accubond if the IMR 7828 didn't perform. If that does not improve it I'd be tearing it apart. Trying a different scope, checking mounts. And if all that fails sending it back to the gunsmith to see what he can find.
 
I'm likely not the person to be stepping in here.

KT, I don't remember what twist rate your ordered your barrel in, or if you posted it.

Last fall my neighbor came over with his Vanguard series 2, with a new barrel, chambered in 300 Win Mag. The kicker was he ordered a 1-12 twist and he wanted to shoot long for weight 190 grain VLD bullets.

He's a pretty fair shot and had a 1-12 twist on his 308 Win and since it shoots so well, felt the twist rate would work in his 300 WM.

It appears that he didn't correlate the differences between the lighter/shorter bullets he was shooting or felt the extra velocity generated by the 300 WM would push it fast enough to stabilize the bullet.

He finally ended up shooting 180 grain SPBTHP bullets using 80 grains of RL 22.

KT, I know that you are fully aware of which twist rate will work for the bullet you intend to shoot.

I don't shoot cartridges such as the 300WM as a matter of choice. Simply because I'm recoil shy. When I do, I use a sissy pad or a Lead sled.

I'm also sure that you know your limitations and flinch isn't an issue.

My preference would have been IMR7828ssc. Still, there is a good chance you may need just a bit more velocity, with a shorter pressure curve to settle down your bullets.

Instead of going to IMR7828, think about RL22.

I was having a similar issue with a 7mmRM. Usually H1000 with 160 grain bullets gives the best overall performance. Several shooters I know use it exclusively for all weights starting at 139 grain on up.

When I switched to a max load of RL 22, the rifle settled right down and produced very decent groups. The rifle is a Winchester Mod 70, from the mid nineties.

I wouldn't have considered going to RL22, but a good friend and mentor, explained how the the shorter pressure curve would sometimes settle negative harmonics in the barrel.

If that doesn't work, would you consider a bit of upward pressure by installing a pad at the same point the sling is mounted???? Doesn't have to be permanent. Not my favorite choice but it does work on some rifles.
 
bearhunter said:
I'm likely not the person to be stepping in here.

KT, I don't remember what twist rate your ordered your barrel in, or if you posted it.

Last fall my neighbor came over with his Vanguard series 2, with a new barrel, chambered in 300 Win Mag. The kicker was he ordered a 1-12 twist and he wanted to shoot long for weight 190 grain VLD bullets.

He's a pretty fair shot and had a 1-12 twist on his 308 Win and since it shoots so well, felt the twist rate would work in his 300 WM.

It appears that he didn't correlate the differences between the lighter/shorter bullets he was shooting or felt the extra velocity generated by the 300 WM would push it fast enough to stabilize the bullet.

He finally ended up shooting 180 grain SPBTHP bullets using 80 grains of RL 22.

KT, I know that you are fully aware of which twist rate will work for the bullet you intend to shoot.

I don't shoot cartridges such as the 300WM as a matter of choice. Simply because I'm recoil shy. When I do, I use a sissy pad or a Lead sled.

I'm also sure that you know your limitations and flinch isn't an issue.

My preference would have been IMR7828ssc. Still, there is a good chance you may need just a bit more velocity, with a shorter pressure curve to settle down your bullets.

Instead of going to IMR7828, think about RL22.

I was having a similar issue with a 7mmRM. Usually H1000 with 160 grain bullets gives the best overall performance. Several shooters I know use it exclusively for all weights starting at 139 grain on up.

When I switched to a max load of RL 22, the rifle settled right down and produced very decent groups. The rifle is a Winchester Mod 70, from the mid nineties.

I wouldn't have considered going to RL22, but a good friend and mentor, explained how the the shorter pressure curve would sometimes settle negative harmonics in the barrel.

If that doesn't work, would you consider a bit of upward pressure by installing a pad at the same point the sling is mounted???? Doesn't have to be permanent. Not my favorite choice but it does work on some rifles.
Click to expand...

It is a 10" twist Benchmark.

I do believe you may be onto something in regards to velocity and pressure.Velocity over the charge range was quite a conservative spread , it went from just below 2800 ft/sec to just above 2900 ft/sec , which over 11 different .5 grain increments I would of expect a larger deviation than 100 ft.

The smith that did the barrel also went through all aspects of the rifle and made some tweaks here and there.(Opened the stock up for slightly larger barrel and rear pillar, I did the bedding previous). Can definitely put a pressure point in there also.

For suitable powders on hand I have H1000 , 7828reg cut , H4350 , Retumbo.

I will try RL22 one day and keep some on hand ,at best it is sporadic to get within 150Km so I usually try to use what I have on hand.
 
Hey Kelly, I am really interested to see how this turns out for you. Please share an update when you get a chance to burn some more powder.
 
Was the barrel broken when you did this test? I assume it was. A virgin barrel won't tell much, as it fouls up.

Look at the bright side. You know what does not work.

I suggest taking 3 other good powders, and loading 3 of each in 0.5 gr increments and shooting 3 shot groups, to first get a hint of what seems to be trying to work.

if nothing works, it might be a rifle problem.

Also, i have found that some rifles just don't like a specific bullet, so maybe you should try 3 powders and 3 bullets.

Let the barrel cool between groups and clean from time to time.

i should be a nice long loading session and an even longer shooting session.
 
H1000 is a great powder in the 300WM.

I would try another bullet. Every time in my life I tried accubond's, I never got them to group right. Even the good old Interlocks were better.
 
Personally, I would swap the AB LR bullets out for some Hornady ELD-X and give it a try. Just basing this suggestion on my personal experiences with both bullets.
 
Qc_BearHunter said:
H1000 is a great powder in the 300WM.

I would try another bullet. Every time in my life I tried accubond's, I never got them to group right. Even the good old Interlocks were better.
Click to expand...

I agree, nosler ABLR as a basterd .. I tried treating them like the VDL Berger's.. tickling the lands.. group better closer than further , that's for sure..
I settled on 75.6 gr of H1000 win brass FED 215M.
My ruger #1 has a slight advantage when it comes to seating them out long..
Just to be clear as mud . 300 win mag..
Sorry if y'all are talking about the weatherby mag.
I get mixed up.. 300 wm ? Lol
 
I am shooting the 210 LRAB's out of 2 308 Norma Magnums, and getting amazing groups with them,
In My Rechambered #1B Ruger, I have them out almost touching the lands
In my 700 Remington, they are about .050" off. Both are ½ moa shooters. Powder in the #1 is retumbo
in the 700 it is Norma MRP. Dave.
 
As I don't like changing too many variables at once I for now will stick with the LRAB.

I will use Retumbo, 7828 and maybe H4350.

What I am not sure on doing is if I shall try more ladder tests or do group tests.Whatever method a scientist chooses he should be able to determine a potential dud vs a potential winner.

I got a bit ahead of myself thinking the new barrel would be a slam dunk and just loaded one ladder test.

If I cannot with those three powders see any promise I will abandon that projectile and try something else.

P.S. - I just looked at some of the photos from last years efforts with the factory barrel, this test covers about half the area those ones did, 1 piece of paper vs over 2.

This is one of last years targets with the factory barrel...



vs this year, new barrel...

 
Sometimes a barrel will just not like certain bullets. I would try the Berger ladder test for bullet seating. You may be surprised how much jump a barrel can like sometimes.
 
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