New barrel ,new ladder test ,Well Sheet!!!Update

It is not surprising to me. You can see large variations some times, even with a precision barrel. Bedding, attachments, etc aside. I see one promising node at 76 to 77gr. I personally don't use the ladder test. I would rather look at groups at distance to minimize vertical dispersion. Horizontal can be a multitude of factors. And it will show you how well you are shooting that day.

H4350, H4831 are great in the 300wm IMO. 180gr fodder my choice. My 2c. Elky....
 
hunters home said:
Sometimes a barrel will just not like certain bullets. I would try the Berger ladder test for bullet seating. You may be surprised how much jump a barrel can like sometimes.
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What charge weight are loaders suggesting to use when doing this test?

As I already did the initial test with no pressure signs I do have a round about starting point , I know there will be pressure changes relative to seating depth but curious as to what guys will start with for a charge weight.

The theory behind it does make sense to me though.
 
The Sierra Manual suggested 70.4 grains of Re22 with their 190 grain MK. 1.5 inches at 300 yards was okay.
They also listed a hunting load using 72.6 grains. This load with the Hornady 190 was around 3" at 300.
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
What charge weight are loaders suggesting to use when doing this test?

As I already did the initial test with no pressure signs I do have a round about starting point , I know there will be pressure changes relative to seating depth but curious as to what guys will start with for a charge weight.

The theory behind it does make sense to me though.
Click to expand...

Depending on how hot you feel your round about load is I would start there (keeping an eye on pressure) and do the ladder test as Berger suggests.I had a 7mm/08 that I couldn't get to shoot the way I wanted, so in desperation I done the Berger test. Was very surprised to find the accuracy I was looking for at .120 off the lands. JME
 
hunters home said:
Depending on how hot you feel your round about load is I would start there (keeping an eye on pressure) and do the ladder test as Berger suggests.I had a 7mm/08 that I couldn't get to shoot the way I wanted, so in desperation I done the Berger test. Was very surprised to find the accuracy I was looking for at .120 off the lands. JME
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This is where I suspect I also may be surprised.I read the Berger article and the range of depths they test and it blew my mind, I've never done any load development with that kind of variance on seating depth, hence likely the reason for doing something different.

I will be able to use any of the charge weights I had. I also read another article where the guy targets velocity , regardless of powder, he finds a plateau in velocities vs charge weight and dials in there for further tuning.
 
No doubt there are different ways of finding a good load, but you must keep in mind that some bullets just don't do well in some rifles. There comes a time when one must just try a different component.
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
What charge weight are loaders suggesting to use when doing this test?

As I already did the initial test with no pressure signs I do have a round about starting point , I know there will be pressure changes relative to seating depth but curious as to what guys will start with for a charge weight.

The theory behind it does make sense to me though.
Click to expand...

Hey kelly... I try to keep my ladder test near the top
of the safe working pressure... with that PARTICULAR powder AND bullet combo.. then I work back 0.5 Gr

I measure my pressure using a combination of C.H.E. ,,ejector smear or " stamping"..
also brass stretch. C.O.L.
A side note..
I load test groups ,, based off the ladder test FPS that show lowE.S. & S.D. ....

the next 4×3 shot test always show
the speeds are close to the same as the ladder.
then I either go closer the the lands Or away .. 0.02 which slightly changes pressure..
Caution if your accuracy nod is near the top of your pressure curve and you seat the bullet further encroaching on enternal case capacity pressure will rise quickly

I feel its important to clean your barrel every shot to ensure it's cold, clean and oiled during my ladder ...
3 shot groups are started clean and cold, oiled..
I map shot 1, 2 and 3
Most off the time shot one and two are bug hole.and the third shot is high and left.. which is what I want in a hunting load..

a step most people skip..


if that dosent find the sweet spot , new powder, same test cycle
 
I think anyone who has done a fair amount of "tuning" has run into this situation where a rifle just doesnt want to shoot. This can quickly turn into a rabbit hole, with the net result being a large expense of time and money, and little reward. In my younger days, I had a Ruger 77 Mk 11 that just wouldnt shoot. I gave up after several hundred rounds and multiple tweaks, including re-bedding. In retrospect, I'm glad I stopped before thinking about a re-barrel.
I would look at the following:

1) Wonky scope? (perhaps you've already investigated this)

2) Try different bullet weights, even plain ol' flat base Hornadies. ( In my travails, I have found that a good bullet will show promise right out of the gate, and will tolerate modest changes in charge weight and COAL)

3) Shoot for groups of 4-5 at 200 y. Ladder tests can often be mis-leading.

4) Avoid coffee before hitting the range.
 
Big bore dinosaur said:
Hey kelly... I try to keep my ladder test near the top
of the safe working pressure... with that PARTICULAR powder AND bullet combo.. then I work back 0.5 Gr

I measure my pressure using a combination of C.H.E. ,,ejector smear or " stamping"..
also brass stretch. C.O.L.
A side note..
I load test groups ,, based off the ladder test FPS that show lowE.S. & S.D. ....

the next 4×3 shot test always show
the speeds are close to the same as the ladder.
then I either go closer the the lands Or away .. 0.02 which slightly changes pressure..
Caution if your accuracy nod is near the top of your pressure curve and you seat the bullet further encroaching on enternal case capacity pressure will rise quickly

I feel its important to clean your barrel every shot to ensure it's cold, clean and oiled during my ladder ...
3 shot groups are started clean and cold, oiled..
I map shot 1, 2 and 3
Most off the time shot one and two are bug hole.and the third shot is high and left.. which is what I want in a hunting load..

a step most people skip..


if that dosent find the sweet spot , new powder, same test cycle
Click to expand...

Well, I think I will try the 80 or 81 gr charges , upper end, no pressure signs , velocity just over 2900 , even though they are horizontally spread they are identical in elevation.Hopefully that translates into something.

I wasn't compressed yet but it will be there if I start a 1/8" or more jump.

I've been trying to keep the COAL within the magazine limitations but it's not then end of the world if it is a single shot , if I have to go this deep.

I have never cleaned during a ladder session but have always had success in my method so I didn't change any of my practices.

As I gain more knowledge and experience over my reloading career I am finding that many and others have evolving and changing tactics as time goes on.

When I started 20 years ago it was a barrage of group tests with multiple combinations of components , now a guy is trying to get it done as simply as efficiently as possible.
 
cosmic said:
I think anyone who has done a fair amount of "tuning" has run into this situation where a rifle just doesnt want to shoot. This can quickly turn into a rabbit hole, with the net result being a large expense of time and money, and little reward. In my younger days, I had a Ruger 77 Mk 11 that just wouldnt shoot. I gave up after several hundred rounds and multiple tweaks, including re-bedding. In retrospect, I'm glad I stopped before thinking about a re-barrel.
I would look at the following:

1) Wonky scope? (perhaps you've already investigated this)

2) Try different bullet weights, even plain ol' flat base Hornadies. ( In my travails, I have found that a good bullet will show promise right out of the gate, and will tolerate modest changes in charge weight and COAL)

3) Shoot for groups of 4-5 at 200 y. Ladder tests can often be mis-leading.

4) Avoid coffee before hitting the range.
Click to expand...

1)Never - she's good, I always keep the rings loose so I can adjust for eye relief during the session.

2)Did that with the original barrel and do have components on hand.

3)For a hunting rifle I go 3, if it's bad with 3 shots it'll be bad with 5.

4)Don't touch the stuff but cannabis is legal and calming I hear. :)
 
A picture of the rests and sand bags your shooting from?
A picture of the gun? Plastic or wood stock?
Did you break in the barrel ie shoot it once clean it, 15 times, then shoot 5 times clean it X2. Yes / No?
 
tigrr said:
a picture of the rests and sand bags your shooting from?
A picture of the gun? Plastic or wood stock?
Did you break in the barrel ie shoot it once clean it, 15 times, then shoot 5 times clean it x2. Yes / no?
Click to expand...

really?

Well since you asked...



I have broken in barrels and I have not broken in barrels, the only possible difference I have seen is how quickly they come clean.I have rifles that didn't get broken and shoot like a dream and others that have not.

There is far more to be lost by not fouling your barrel after cleaning, that I can say I know first hand.
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
1)Never - she's good, I always keep the rings loose so I can adjust for eye relief during the session.

2)Did that with the original barrel and do have components on hand.

3)For a hunting rifle I go 3, if it's bad with 3 shots it'll be bad with 5.

4)Don't touch the stuff but cannabis is legal and calming I hear. :)
Click to expand...


Perhaps I've mis-understood your response about the scope? Scopes die , even decent ones. It may have been working at one time, but can you be sure its OK now? Given the way this effort has gone (you havent got a decent group yet), I would be highly suspicious of the scope.
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
1)Never - she's good, I always keep the rings loose so I can adjust for eye relief during the session.

2)Did that with the original barrel and do have components on hand.

3)For a hunting rifle I go 3, if it's bad with 3 shots it'll be bad with 5.

4)Don't touch the stuff but cannabis is legal and calming I hear. :)
Click to expand...

Please tell me you're joking with your #1 answer?
 
Conversely, maybe a slower powder isn't the way to go with your rig. It wouldn't hurt to try H4831 and RL22/RL23. I've always had good results with RL22 in 300WM.
 
Ltbull01 said:
Conversely, maybe a slower powder isn't the way to go with your rig. It wouldn't hurt to try H4831 and RL22/RL23. I've always had good results with RL22 in 300WM.
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I would but it's next to impossible to get RL22, around here at least.I feel that with what I have something will work, this was just the first outing with the new barrel.I have 7828, H1000, H4350 , Retumbo which I can play with.
 
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