New Build - A Northwest Trade Gun

[B_noser]

Just finished building this for a friend.
The walnut stock is finished with pure tung oil.
The unmarked 42" .62cal. smooth-bore barrel is believed to be a Colerain.
The lock is a Davis trade gun flint.
The weight is 7 lb. 13 oz.
Gotta do something about those shiny screws in the lock

 

[gunsaholic]

Very nice. Lucky friend!

 

[tiriaq]

Looks great!

Here are some photos from my files:

Here are a pair of trade gun locks. Many years ago I was involved in manufacturing reproduction NW guns. I put the unmarked one together from left over parts; the one with the tombstone fox is an Upper Missouri Trading Company lockplate with my left over parts. I think Upper Missouri used the same lock to make their wax casting dies that we did.



I put this gun together thirty odd years ago. Metal parts are all left overs from our production, apart from the barrel which is a North Star. Stock cme out of a 2" cherry plank.

 

[B_noser]

Thanks for the pics and info tiriaq. It would have been nice to have the sitting fox or tombstone fox on this lock. You mentioned the North Star barrel. Would that have been one of Curly's barrels?

 

[tiriaq]

Yes, I bought a few barrels from Curley. Still have one. Rebreeched it with the bolster and tang from a Parker Hale Enfield to make up a late percussion (Enfield lock) pattern gun. We used Numrich barrel blanks for our guns. 1 3/16x36 1/4 to start. Machined tapered round to tapered octagon. The barrel blank weighed more than the finished gun.
I seem to think that there are stamps out there. The original circle fox marks were sometimes made by a combination of stamping and engraving. The lock we used for our dies had the W CHANCE and IA -Jacob Astor - tombstone fox mark, from the American Fur Company. We didn't want those marks, so they were removed from our die. We had Barnett and circle fox stamps made. These could not be struck with a hammer. I tried. It was impossible to get an impression with a hand hammer. We took our stamps and lockplates to a company who used a power hammer. Incidentally, we had the circle fox struck on the barrel over the breech plug. Enough force was involved in the impact that the barrel would be dented otherwise. Originals had the mark further up the barrel, but as I mentioned, the mark was a combination of engraving and stamping, and the original barrel is soft iron.

Here are the main pieces for the percussion NW gun.

 

[B_noser]

That looks to be an interesting project. I assume it will have NW gun architecture. Please post pics as you progress.

That is good information on the circle fox and tombstone fox stamps. I understand the tombstone fox stamp to be the later of the two. I was not aware that the barrels were stamped. Thought it was only on the lock. The owner has expressed interest in purchasing the circle fox stamp and having the lock marked by yours truly. Do I understand you to say the circle fox stamp can not be struck by hand? I can see how that would likely not be possible with the Barnett stamp due to the size.

 

[tiriaq]

I was unable to get decent impressions of either the BARNETT or circle fox stamps striking the stamps by hand. Didn't even think that could be a problem until I tried. No doubt the size of the stamp was a factor - the amount of steel that had to be displaced. Our barrels were 1137, the lockplates mild steel, say 1015.

 

[B_noser]

That is interesting and quite surprising. I would not have thought a sitting fox stamp would displace more metal than a 1/4" letter stamp.
It just goes to show there is no substitute for experience.
Thanks

 

[chasseur]

After seeing your post it reminded me of and old lock I got from Curley years ago.I started looking and found most of the parts just missing the sear spring and the lock screws but I figure that if I dig some more I ll find the rest.I might have to sit down and put it back together View attachment 654690

 

[conor_90]

Would love a percussion nw gun. Can those locks be purchased anywhere?

 

[MC One Shot]

I own a Curley Gostomski NW smoothbore in a .62. Wonderful piece and an excellent shooter. It has a hobnailed butt plate that sets it apart from other NW trade guns. Surprisingly you don't even notice them all while shooting.

I used to have (just cant find it now) a list of where the majority of the parts etc went after Matt shut down NSW.

 

[tiriaq]

Would love a percussion nw gun. Can those locks be purchased anywhere?

I do not think a reproduction percussion NW gun has been offered commercially. One route would be to simply use a lock representing a converted flintlock, with a drum threaded into the barrel. The lockplate can be easily made from steel plate, and generic percussion lock parts are readily available. I did this to make a percussion NW gun and it is a very practical solution
A replica of a late percussion gun is a bit more complicated. In the photos I posted of the parts for the percussion gun I'm planning, I believe the lock came from an Indian (South Asia) Enfield. I drawfiled the plate clean. The percussion bolster and breechplug were from a Parker Hale Enfield reproduction barrel. The barrel itself had been used to rebarrel a Snider rifle.
A lock salvaged from a wrecked Snider rifle would be an excellent choice. High quality lock. These turn up regularly and are not uncommon or particularly expensive. I'm unaware of a breechplug unit with the Enfield style bolster being available.

Anyone searching for a flintlock trade gun lock kit should have a look at .texasguntrade.com. He offers a parts set for a Belgian made trade gun lock. The style is quite appropriate for the period 1840-1860.