new canadian made 1911

thump_rrr said:
It's because of the machinery required to forge frames and slides as well as the rifling in the barrels.
I have been doing service work for over 20 years in some pretty impressive plants and still haven't seen more than a few of them.
It's highly unlikely that they are forging their own frames and slides.
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Exactly........

The machinery alone is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, and I only know of a couple of forging plants, and if you have been keeping up with the crappy economy of Canada, you can easily see that most if not all manufacturing has left this great country of ours........

That is why I am skeptical about this

nothing against Canstar, but assembling something here in Canada does not make it so one can say Made in Canada, even though a lot of companies do this because of the percentage of pieces made here will allow it to be said.

A descent rifling machine will run you upwards of about half a million dollars, your lucky if you can find one, and even luckier if you can find it cheaper

I am not trying to bash this company, I even wish we had more Canadian companies doing this, hell even we are still looking at doing this ourselves, but the costs are great, the return takes a long time, unless you have the equipment already, we have a few of the machines required, but another stumbling block is the tooling required as well, this is another expense as well

If all falls into place, we might produce from billet, a lower for an AR, frames for a 1911, and slides, this is a lot more doable, than using forgings, plus it is then made in Canada, however much more expensive, forgings are cheaper, especially if one has ordered a few hundred/thousand at a time.

That is why I am skeptical......





hopefully soon, we will have the pieces in place to be doing barrels soon, have not decided just yet on lengths, and for what applications, rifles, AR's, etc, yes this is doable as one can buy a rifled blank and then profile it as it is needed
 
banjaboy said:
I put my money where my heart is when I can.
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i'm guessing you don't run a business? :p

probably an OK stance from a consumer point of view, though...

there used to be a number of companies that made stuff here (all industries), but the taxes and laws and regulations and costs just make it totally non-competitive and not-very-profitable, and since the main reason for starting a business is to make money.....
 
If it's farmed out then it's NOT Made in Canada.........it's only assembled

the frames, the slides, the barells all could have been Made in China for all we know, so what is it that you are buying Canadian.....the assembly ?

and no not everyone farms out their stuff out, take for Example Springfiled Armory, look at some of thier stuff and you know exactly where it's made,,,,,

Made in Brazil
Made in Croatia
Made in USA

you know exactly what your buying............
 
Personally I would rather have high-end established parts assembled by a good 1911 smith than somebody building 1911s completely from scratch anyway.

And 1911s aren't Glocks...you don't just buy the parts, assemble them, and expect quality. There is a lot of labour that goes in to a quality 1911.

A Brownell's catalogue is a weapon second only to a dremel tool when it comes to amateurs killing their 1911s...I know from hard experience.

If you bought the entire parts list for these guns and just assembled them as is, or fitted them together without knowing which surfaces to start with and how much to take off, etc, you would not necessarily have a great gun. In fact you would not necessarily have a half-decent gun. You might just have a pile of expensive, ruined parts.

IF these guys build great guns out of the parts they list, that is plenty "made in Canada" enough for me.
 
next were goona hear that if the metal was not mined here in Canada its not Canadian..

it never fails that when im surprised someone wants to act like a princess... someone else will out-do them.

some companies can machine a forging (albeit with expensive tooling)

look into tool steel and see what other grades are out there... 4140 is not new or the best by any means... yes even for firearms.
How about D2 for wear based parts? (costs 25% more)
how about P20 for the better finish in polishing (pre-blued and is available pre-hard in diameters!)
or some Vanadium grades? (costs 400% more)

oops... sorry.... its German steel from that supplier...

Canada has Alcoa still right?
 
BP7, your comment regarding me doesn't make sense I'm afraid. I said I buy in Canada when I can whats the problem? I will pay a premium to buy Canadian when I can, whats wrong with that or did I misunderstand your point. Yes, even fitted and assemlbed in Canada will get my business too, even with a premium that is reasonable.:)
 
I spoke to the owner of Canstar Arms at the gun show in Longueuil on Saturday, he said they do all their own machining. I own a higher end production Springfield Armory 1911, and the slide to frame fit on their 1911's was much better than my own. The triggers were nice as well. I've never assembled my own 1911, so I may not have asked the right questions, but he also stated regarding their pre-fit slide/frame/barrel kit that all other parts should drop in without the need for additional machining or fitting.
 
banjaboy said:
BP7, your comment regarding me doesn't make sense I'm afraid. I said I buy in Canada when I can whats the problem? I will pay a premium to buy Canadian when I can, whats wrong with that or did I misunderstand your point. Yes, even fitted and assemlbed in Canada will get my business too, even with a premium that is reasonable.:)
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i meant that as a business, money and heart don't mix very well. money doesn't love you back, and if you cry for money it doesn't cry for you.

as a consumer, though, i have no qualms with where or how you spend it :) i've bought canadian when it made me and my wallet happy!
 
Well BP7, I can only speak as a consumer. I personally will pay a premium for Canadian made, followed by US made. Of course if that premium is too much then as a retired fart I go for price, reluctanly. But a couple of times I have talked to my local gun store, told them the price I can get from the competition, not in a nasty way, just seeing how close they can come to the competition. They know I will be back for Ammo, service etc so they can sharpen their pencil and we can deal. I dont expect them to work for no profit and I know they dont have the luxury of buying lots of expensive items to stock but I feel they deserve the chance to compete, to order something in for me because I'm not in a hurry to get it today.But I must say that 95% of purchases are made locally even though sometimes I pay a little more.:)
 
well, i guess i'm just too "cold" in that case, since if i can save my money by shopping elsewhere, i'll do so. i work hard for my money (and try to make as much of it as i can) and i get taxed enough as it is that i'll do what i can to keep it mine and not just hand it over to someone cuz they're sittin' down the street. but to take your example, here's an interesting angle: if you can shop elsewhere to save a few bucks, you can use those saved bucks to buy more stuff at your local store at their price that you're happy with. you get more product in the long-run, and they can continue to stock the parts that you buy and will buy happily. kind of a win-win.

big picture time - we should differentiate between "buy locally" versus "manufactured locally" which is what CanStar seems to be touting. and then, what really is "manufactured" and what is just "assembled".

while it would be cool to see more things actually MADE here, i have my doubts in this era. with the economy being global (contrast it with the 1970s or even 1980s), the canadian dollar being strong (better-than-par versus the USD), and the canadian 'mentality' being much less aggressive than the US mindset, i'd like to see success but believe will see failure. case in point - how many canadian retailers have successfully expanded into the USA? how about vice-versa....
 
kazzxtrismus said:
ok i own a norinco... and getting called a cheapskate is a little insulting.
ill admit to being frugal.. thats about it.

for the uninformed norinco's are a great platform to throw $1000 at and have a premium grade gun that'll out shoot and be more reliable than lots of other $1500 "equivalents"

alot of the bad reputation for norinco's comes from the US who only have experience with pre-ban 1980's models.

No.. Norinco's are not great out of the box... but theire frames and slides are better metal than MOST competitors.

that said.... I have been shopping extensively for a really good / the best sub $1500 handgun for IPSC or IDPA... something better than entry level.

my budget has been set by the job at hand... so I need to save up for about 1yr.
that being said if the product output by these guys fall in spec for what i need.

Then i would probably prefer this to a cz combat sport which has worked itself onto the top of my list... from the website they do have product that matches the bill $$ wise.

that being said... most people touting their $2k+ have done so in such an elitist and arrogant fashion i have pretty much decided to draw a formal line in the sand at $1500.

if you dont like my line in the sand i suggest you donate a portion of your vast riches to my car payment mortgage family on a very tight budget fund.

its currently being supported by ei due to my current employer thinking im "too picky" to work in the shop over the winter as an automotive final prepper & painter....
in a market that thinks $700 to paint a whole car by maaco is the normal/fair price.
and paying a trades person more than $20/hr out of the $120 charged is a farce.

must go.. blood pressure rising
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Wait a second... you are snarled at the idea someone called you a cheapskate because you prefer to purchase from offshore, but are mad because people are unwilling to pay decent money for a paint job or wages for your skilled labour? Isn't that the same thing? Canada has been transformed by Wal-Mart, with no one putting any worth in skilled labour or their neighbours working for decent wages, so we all slowly go down the crapper... well, except for all the CEO's and shareholders, who prefer offshore for the increased profit margins.
 
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