New chassis

[Tomochan]

Sometimes on this forum I have to ask if people know what it takes to shoot consitent 1/2 MOA with any rifle let alone a battle rifle. Let's put this in perspective: most factory heavy barrel rifles will not shoot 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups. Some will - TRG 22 comes to mind - but can the shooter and ammo do that remains questionable. F/TR rigs need to do 1/2 MOA or better to be competitive and BR guns need to be in the .1's or .2's. Ammo selection is critical as is shooter ability and then there is the question of glass and how it is mounted.

When all those things are humming along you are in the world of 1/2 MOA or better. To b.s. about how a M14 ( or any other main battle rifle for that matter ) can be 1/2 MOA is just plain wrong - it creates unrealistic expectations for new shooters and makes a joke of the credibility of those who spout such crap. The M14 is a great rifle - a great 2 MOA rifle and some can be made to be 1 MOA - but attributing qualities to it that it just doesn't have, nor was it designed to have, is nonsense.

 

[hend238]

Sometimes on this forum I have to ask if people know what it takes to shoot consitent 1/2 MOA with any rifle let alone a battle rifle. Let's put this in perspective: most factory heavy barrel rifles will not shoot 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups. Some will - TRG 22 comes to mind - but can the shooter and ammo do that remains questionable. F/TR rigs need to do 1/2 MOA or better to be competitive and BR guns need to be in the .1's or .2's. Ammo selection is critical as is shooter ability and then there is the question of glass and how it is mounted.

When all those things are humming along you are in the world of 1/2 MOA or better. To b.s. about how a M14 ( or any other main battle rifle for that matter ) can be 1/2 MOA is just plain wrong - it creates unrealistic expectations for new shooters and makes a joke of the credibility of those who spout such crap. The M14 is a great rifle - a great 2 MOA rifle and some can be made to be 1 MOA - but attributing qualities to it that it just doesn't have, nor was it designed to have, is nonsense.

You make very good points for sure. Breaking that sub MOA barrier consistently, especially in a battle rifle, is challenging and requires a lot of work and dedication to say the least. Though one can get lucky and find themselves with a rifle with outstanding accuracy. That ever so elusive "hummer" barrel for example. I had to work like a rented mule to get my factory "Fclass" rifle to be competitive. My bench rest rifle on the other hand was competitive right out of the gate with no effort as it should be. If the shooter knows how to steer the rifle then the seemingly impossible, to some people, is achievable. These kinds of forums are filled with wild claims. But who are we to judge from the side lines, automatically dismissing the person as full of crap. I just don't understand why we as a group always have to take things so personally all the time. Who cares if a guy wants to build what seems like an impossible M14 platform. Let him and try not to lose any sleep over it.

 

[dfritter1]

Never mind my rifle; I wish I was a 1/2 MOA shooter!

Sadly, I'm not aware of any USGI parts swaps that will rectify that... although the way my diet's going lately, a new gas system might be in order.

In all seriousness though, I'm hoping to shoot some service rifle next year and as such have been practising shooting from all manner of positions. And I gotta say, chasing 1/2 MOA groups off a rest isn't nearly as interesting as chasing 2" groups from offhand!

 

[Tomochan]

I just don't understand why we as a group always have to take things so personally all the time. Who cares if a guy wants to build what seems like an impossible M14 platform. Let him and try not to lose any sleep over it.

You are right, I'm just being a naysayer. I should get another coffee or something.

 

[Oldsmobiler]

just because one guy says it can't be done doesn't mean that its impossible. Might be a long journey and cost a bit of money but with dedication and some good reference material anyone can do it. Keep researching...figure out what you need and how you are going to get it....then practice practice and then more practice. Most of the time its not the hardware but the shooter.

 

[M14Doctor]

just because one guy says it can't be done doesn't mean that its impossible. Might be a long journey and cost a bit of money but with dedication and some good reference material anyone can do it. Keep researching...figure out what you need and how you are going to get it....then practice practice and then more practice. Most of the time its not the hardware but the shooter.

This.... Is so true.

 

[hnachaj]

PRS stock is on the way here. As a techno, I am up to the challenge. I will purchase a 18.5 shorty for now and install it in the chassis. I will probably get a Leopold Tactical 4.5x14x50 ERT scope for it. I will do groups with various ammo. From there, I will do some modes including going to a 7-08. I will do testing of grouping at each stage. I really don't yet understand the need of a perfect gas system to increase accuracy! Normaly, a good chassis, great trigger group, fine optics and most importantly finding the recipe that the barrel likes is of the upmost importance for a great performance!

I have over 35 years of precision shooting, so there must be a way to get a M14 to shoot under 1 MOA! I have seen it done at the Wallingford range in CT!

Regards,
Henry

 

[redivivus]

I was feeling like a King today having done 2MOA with irons at 200m (stock 22" Norky in SAGE stock) and then come here to this thread and got depressed. 0.5 MOA ? Really ? Can someone post pictures of their groups ? Searched through the forums and could not find a single picture backing this claim so this has me interested.

I've always considered the M14/ M1A to be a ~ 2MOA battle rifle but it appears to be a bit of a magician's wand in the hands of the truly gifted. Let's see some pix chaps!

 

[Teapot]

hnachav, good luck to you. You seem determined enough to achieve your goal. I hope you get everything together and working the way you want it. I have always liked the M-14 rifle but can't really afford to feed it so I have never owned one. I will look forward to reading about your progress.

 

[Oldsmobiler]

I was feeling like a King today having done 2MOA with irons at 200m (stock 22" Norky in SAGE stock) and then come here to this thread and got depressed. 0.5 MOA ? Really ? Can someone post pictures of their groups ? Searched through the forums and could not find a single picture backing this claim so this has me interested.

I've always considered the M14/ M1A to be a ~ 2MOA battle rifle but it appears to be a bit of a magician's wand in the hands of the truly gifted. Let's see some pix chaps!

Here is a pic of some load testing i was doing...screwed up the last shot and it pissed me off! Magic load for me is 41gr IMR4895, 168gr SMK, Win brass, #34 primer, 2.80" COAL. 5 rounds, 1 inch squares, 100 meters

And yeah i know how to shoot

 

[hend238]

Here is a pic of some load testing i was doing...screwed up the last shot and it pissed me off! Magic load for me is 41gr IMR4895, 168gr SMK, Win brass, #34 primer, 2.80" COAL. 5 rounds, 1 inch squares, 100 meters

And yeah i know how to shoot

Ahh bummer! Those groups look pretty consistent. Looks like you have some vertical though. I'm assuming you've tired to tune the vertical out?

 

[hend238]

hnachav, good luck to you. You seem determined enough to achieve your goal. I hope you get everything together and working the way you want it. I have always liked the M-14 rifle but can't really afford to feed it so I have never owned one. I will look forward to reading about your progress.

Me too.