New Dlask Flash Suppressors

acrashb said:
Quite likely because the costs of the action outweigh the benefits...
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Or they don't have a case, we don't know for sure. I can understand that someone would be ticked off knowing his idea got copied, but if it was copied within the law, there's not much to do about it. Or you can think the other way " Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

If it was me (SmithEnt), I'd think the best way to get back in the game would be to do everything possible and do get my stuff across the border.
 
zykopat said:
Or they don't have a case, we don't know for sure. I can understand that someone would be ticked off knowing his idea got copied, but if it was copied within the law, there's not much to do about it. Or you can think the other way " Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

If it was me (SmithEnt), I'd think the best way to get back in the game would be to do everything possible and do get my stuff across the border.
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SIE products can be imported albeit expensive ,it may seem to many here that it is hard to justify the added cost to buy his product .
 
The US has been told that closing their borders to export would cost them.

I disagree with stealing ideas, but it's not my fault that the US refuses to sell the product to me. Dlask is not filling a demand for a cheaper product of a product on the market, he is filling a demand for a product not available.

Sorry, but I have a hard time fealing sorry for the US when it's their own damn fault, they make bulls**t laws and expect everybody to say thank you.

I would love to spend good money on KAC, LaRue, Magpul and others.... but where do I find the product??? it's not there, so I will buy lowers by ATR, barrels by AEI, accessories by Dlask..... I will also bet that the farting beaver has as many differences with the KX3 at it has with the Krinkov brake.
 
and I'll ask this question just one last time Savage



WHO can show us an end user certificate accompanying a Smith enterprise direct connect vortex flash hider, that they, as a civillian, imported into this country in the past 2 years???? didn't think so.
I know of one dealer in canada who stocks smith ent items..... I assume they are imported through a brownells dealer program.... but that is my assumption.
Under the brownells dealer pogram I am currently registering for, smith enterprise vortex flash hiders are not importable unless by LEO or APO orders

and then there is still this.......
the two flash hiders are significantly different when you get down to the dimensions that count. Smith's design features a certain "rake" and angle of the "vortex" prongs. The patent exists based on this being a key part of how the flash hider works. How is anyone who makes an item similar, but yet with different rake and angle.... as well as obvious differences in exterior detail....... how is that a patent infringement.?? Now... if the NAME vortex is the issue...... Joe simply needs to change the name of his flash hider and I've recommended he do that.

Joe himself told me this..... and he's prolly gonna kick me in the ass for speaking "for" him...... but it goes like this....

If smith ent has an issue.... they should have come to me (joe) 5 years ago when this first came up.
Smith ent chose not to, even though they had actually handled the offending item as it had been sent to them by a guy who admits that here in this very thead.
So fast forward to now...... Joe's response is again.... hey... if Ron smith has an issue with this..... Call me (Joe) and we will discuss it like business people do..... the flash hider is not the same although to the untrained eye with no measuring tools in hand.... they appear similar. Joe aslo stated, hey, if smith enterprise wants a canadian manufacturer, who is capable of directly copying thier product in every detail, to the level of quality they expect...... I'll gladly pay a royalty under liscence to make thier product availlable here.

so, Joe is not the evil.... mad cloning outfit that a select few of you here insist that he is.... for what ever personal reasons you choose to do so.

In the instance of the KX3, it bother's me that you attack a respectable canadian business, saying they can't put out thier version of a flash hider because they stole the idea from a U.S. company that stole the idea from the russian design..... that is just not rational thinking


I accept the argument that is represented here, but some of you are missing your facts. In my eyes, you are trashing on a reputable business for the sake of post count and perhaps for personal reasons that are not being made evident here.
 
45ACPKING said:
and I'll ask this question just one last time Savage



WHO can show us an end user certificate accompanying a Smith enterprise direct connect vortex flash hider, that they, as a civillian, imported into this country in the past 2 years???? didn't think so.
I know of one dealer in canada who stocks smith ent items..... I assume they are imported through a brownells dealer program.... but that is my assumption.
Under the brownells dealer pogram I am currently registering for, smith enterprise vortex flash hiders are not importable unless by LEO or APO orders

and then there is still this.......
the two flash hiders are significantly different when you get down to the dimensions that count. Smith's design features a certain "rake" and angle of the "vortex" prongs. The patent exists based on this being a key part of how the flash hider works. How is anyone who makes an item similar, but yet with different rake and angle.... as well as obvious differences in exterior detail....... how is that a patent infringement.?? Now... if the NAME vortex is the issue...... Joe simply needs to change the name of his flash hider and I've recommended he do that.

Joe himself told me this..... and he's prolly gonna kick me in the ass for speaking "for" him...... but it goes like this....

If smith ent has an issue.... they should have come to me (joe) 5 years ago when this first came up.
Smith ent chose not to, even though they had actually handled the offending item as it had been sent to them by a guy who admits that here in this very thead.
So fast forward to now...... Joe's response is again.... hey... if Ron smith has an issue with this..... Call me (Joe) and we will discuss it like business people do..... the flash hider is not the same although to the untrained eye with no measuring tools in hand.... they appear similar. Joe aslo stated, hey, if smith enterprise wants a canadian manufacturer, who is capable of directly copying thier product in every detail, to the level of quality they expect...... I'll gladly pay a royalty under liscence to make thier product availlable here.

so, Joe is not the evil.... mad cloning outfit that a select few of you here insist that he is.... for what ever personal reasons you choose to do so.

In the instance of the KX3, it bother's me that you attack a respectable canadian business, saying they can't put out thier version of a flash hider because they stole the idea from a U.S. company that stole the idea from the russian design..... that is just not rational thinking


I accept the argument that is represented here, but some of you are missing your facts. In my eyes, you are trashing on a reputable business for the sake of post count and perhaps for personal reasons that are not being made evident here.
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:rolleyes:

1) I like how you slip in a personal attack by suggesting people what feel knocking something off is unethical have "personal reasons" or only care about "post count".

2) Did Joe ever contact people about making stuff under contract BEFORE he knocked off their product? That's kind of like saying, "If I get caught stealing I'll offer to buy it from you".

:rolleyes:
 
45ACPKING said:
and I'll ask this question just one last time Savage



WHO can show us an end user certificate accompanying a Smith enterprise direct connect vortex flash hider, that they, as a civillian, imported into this country in the past 2 years???? didn't think so.
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Thomas they have been imported 2 yrs ago into Canada through Seals Action Gear although mostly AR models and and other models including the M14 Direct connect vortex . I posted the section on NAFTA about patent laws so now this you really need to quit posting
 
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I was not intending a personal attack...... and if Savage sees it that way he can message me and we will iron it out.
I'm not one of those guys who comes on here to antagonize people...... I think most guys who know me know that.
The personal attacks started when guys here stated throwing the word thief around... and questioning the integrity of those of us who deal with Dlask.

I stated in my last post.... that i can respect the views of those opposed..... what more do you want? Heck we could all sit down at the same table with a beer and have this conversation without poking each other's eyes out..... If yer offended by my words..... ya better get a thicker skin.

I'm gonna leave this thread now, I've said all i need to.
my comments are in defense of a friend, however it's up to him at this point to defend himself from these allegations......
I have been a customer for many , many years and have come acccustom to being treated well with every single transaction and item i have dealt with him on.
He has skills i intend to utilize in the future to bring some of my original products to market. So when i see guys here..... who do not represent any of the companies they are defending.... trash talking and throwing claims of theft around...... I will rise to the defense of a friend...... wouldn't you?

again ... I don't want to hear about so and so used to sell smith ent stuff..... or so and so imported a vortex from smith...... show me proof.... it's not hard to ask.
I have end user certificates for MANY items I myself have had imported into canada.... sadly, while the last batch of usgi parts and some other items DID get STate department export approval..... the three DC Vortex M14 Vortexes that were on the export application, that were intended for Brobee , were denied export approval and were omitted from my export order. Date August 11th, 2008 . Reason stated..... controlled item not for export

I have respect for some of you arguing your points..... at no time should anyone posting here feel that i am intentionally targetting them and making this personal.
 
Thomas a lot of the issues we face are directly related to previous government policies we were offered an exemption from the US that would have allowed us to basically opt out of the ITAR aggreement but ol John Cruton sealed our fate ,It is our own previous Goverments Assclownery that is the cause of this .To Suggest that it is the US's Fault shows how ignorant some of us are ,As for Joes offer to build under License thats great but will go nowhere and you know thatas well because under ITAR he can only sell to Authorized End Users
 
G37 said:
The nice thing about DLASK is it's not going to be a poor-quality knock-off
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You sure about that? Have you ever actually handled one of those Vortex flash suppressors they produce? I ended up buying one because the Smith Enterprise version is difficult to get up here(Brownells won't ship it). The quality of the Dlask Vortex was horrid, rough threading and finish, the person who made mine just didn't pay attention to detail. I now own a Smith Vortex and am much happier, I am at work right now so I can't post pics but I will when I get home.

I also own a KX3 and am very happy with it, thwe finish on the Noveske looks a little better than the Dlask version, but I am happy that we now have a Canadian alternative for some products, I just wish Dlask would fix some QC issues they have.
 
I made some phone calls yesterday. I think I found out why they made their flash hider so close to the Noveske design.
That is to protect anybody who may use it from allegations of having a silencer. If you remember, the Noveske FH was inspected by BATF and they decided it is not a silencer.
If that's the case, cheers for Dlask. Good thinking boys!
I will buy at least one and try it on my shorties.


On another topic, did anybody found if Noveske has a real patent in US for their KX?
Not that it matters, but just for shizzles...
 
misanthropist said:
Well, I don't know who did your Dlortex but I have a couple...they are beautiful. The machining is perfect and the finish is rich and lustrous. Maybe you got a lemon!
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+1 to that. All three of mine were perfect.

Savage said:
Here is something from the NAFTA Aggreement
Section 5 of the Patent Section provides a clear answer on this....
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Wow that was a read. I do not see the clear answer you refer to though...At least not one germane to the subject at hand.

U.S. Patents are enforceable in the U.S. only. NAFTA does not and can not change that- it is a trade agreement not an intellectual property agreement.

Unless Noveske has a Canadian patent there is nothing wrong with what Dlask is doing legally. We can argue ethics all day long, but there is nothing actionable in this situation. This explains why Smith has known about the Dlortex for years and done nothing. There is no point in him spending $50,000 to patent a product here that he cannot sell to the public due to ITAR regulations. Same is true for Noveske. No patent, no protection...

I'm sure someone will say I'm wrong, but until I see something in black and white that says that Noveske has a Canadian patent, or that U.S. patents are enforceable here there is really no arguement. Even the most rudimentary Google search will produce law firm FAQs stating what I just have: You need a patent in place in each country you want you product protected. Even WIPO applications do not provide protection unless patents are in place in all the listed countries.

Bottom line is I'm with Scarecrow. I'd never hang one of those ugly chunks off my barrels anyhow....
 
OOOhhh wow Dlask ripped off somebody's design, what a big surprise. Welcome to what people like to call the real world. Its the world where people buy Nork M14s, Nork M4s, velmet M78s, Galils, Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40s etc etc etc.

In the end its really not even worth enforcing intelectual properties these days. Its just something we have to live with. All you can do is try to make it difficult but even then.... Make a product, make it good and keep costs down as much as possible.

BTW the US diserves everything its getting right now especially in the arms business.
 
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Kaiser_Sose said:
I made some phone calls yesterday. I think I found out why they made their flash hider so close to the Noveske design.
That is to protect anybody who may use it from allegations of having a silencer. If you remember, the Noveske FH was inspected by BATF and they decided it is not a silencer.
If that's the case, cheers for Dlask. Good thinking boys!
I will buy at least one and try it on my shorties.


On another topic, did anybody found if Noveske has a real patent in US for their KX?
Not that it matters, but just for shizzles...
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someone had to say it. lol
 
It seems that people are complaining about be ability to buy good gear in Canada. Lets face it, this isn't the USA and we don't have the choice to buy whatever gun parts we want for our black rifles. We should be happy to have a decent manufacturer who can supply a reasonable product for our "limited" Canadian market.

For those who want one. Get one. For those who want the "original" flaming pig ... than you can dream on and maybe find one for your Norinco M4'gery ... Hahahaaha
 
Shazam said:
It seems that people are complaining about be ability to buy good gear in Canada. Lets face it, this isn't the USA and we don't have the choice to buy whatever gun parts we want for our black rifles. We should be happy to have a decent manufacturer who can supply a reasonable product for our "limited" Canadian market.

For those who want one. Get one. For those who want the "original" flaming pig ... than you can dream on and maybe find one for your Norinco M4'gery ... Hahahaaha
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x2. Good on Dlask... awesome product well built and backed. And most importantly ITAR-Free! Keep it coming boys!! :cheers: :canadaFlag: :canadaFlag: :canadaFlag: :cheers:

To very roughly quote the little bun haired freak Princess Lea Organa "the more you tighten you grip Grand Moff ITAR-ken, the more star systems will slip though your fingers..."
 
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